{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/j09w08wj8w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Mark Brown, April 30, 2009"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/002/original/1b9c652bf856b30cc9684b8a547e8758.png?1549330641","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Mark Brown (Interviewee)","Thomas Troland (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2010-04-30 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["2009oh170_bik011 (cms record id)","2009OH170 BIK011 (accession number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Buffalo Trace Oral History Project (BIK003) (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Mark Brown is the president and C.E.O. of the Sazerac Company, parent company of Buffalo Trace. Brown grew up in a small town in England where his parents owned a pub, later coming to the United States, where he took a position with Sazerac.   In this interview, Brown explains that he came to Kentucky to work with Sazerac's holding, Buffalo Trace, which was struggling during the bourbon industry's downturn in the 1970s and 1980s. He describes the restoration of the distillery and lists the successes it has since enjoyed. Brown talks about Buffalo Trace's commitment to innovation and mentions its development of experimental bourbons. He also describes the distillery's effort to preserve the historic architecture on the site.  Brown discusses the future of Buffalo Trace and the bourbon industry's potential for success in international markets. In addition, he explains the benefits that bourbon tourism and the growth of the industry could have for the state of Kentucky. (summary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["England--Social life and customs","Bars (Drinking establishments)","Tourism--Kentucky","Family-owned business enterprises.","Sales promotion.","Quality of products."]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Sazerac Company, Inc. (local term)","Whiskey (local term)","Whiskey industry--Kentucky (local term)","Distilleries--Kentucky (local term)","Brown-Forman Corporation (local term)","Alcohol industry. (local term)","Bourbon whiskey (local term)","Business enterprises, Foreign. (local term)","Export marketing. (local term)","Buffalo Trace Distillery. (local term)","Economic conditions. (local term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries.","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections and Digital Programs, University of Kentucky Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["00048048 (2009oh170_bik011_brown_ohm.xml)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Duration"]},"value":{"en":["01:22:09"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Mark Brown is the president and C.E.O. of the Sazerac Company, parent company of Buffalo Trace. Brown grew up in a small town in England where his parents owned a pub, later coming to the United States, where he took a position with Sazerac.   In this interview, Brown explains that he came to Kentucky to work with Sazerac's holding, Buffalo Trace, which was struggling during the bourbon industry's downturn in the 1970s and 1980s. He describes the restoration of the distillery and lists the successes it has since enjoyed. Brown talks about Buffalo Trace's commitment to innovation and mentions its development of experimental bourbons. He also describes the distillery's effort to preserve the historic architecture on the site.  Brown discusses the future of Buffalo Trace and the bourbon industry's potential for success in international markets. In addition, he explains the benefits that bourbon tourism and the growth of the industry could have for the state of Kentucky."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries.","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections and Digital Programs, University of Kentucky Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/002/original/1b9c652bf856b30cc9684b8a547e8758.png?1549330641","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/000/008/small/open-uri20190204-2161-4l8hji?1549331317","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 2009oh170_bik011_brown_acc003 from Nunn Center for Oral History on Vimeo"]},"duration":4929.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/000/008/small/open-uri20190204-2161-4l8hji?1549331317","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://player.vimeo.com/video/253465930","type":"Video","format":"video/vimeo","duration":4929.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["2009oh170_bik011_brown_ohm.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TROLAND: My name is Tom Troland.  We're interviewing today Mark Brown,\nwho is president and C.E.O.  of the Sazerac Company.  It's April 30,\n2009.  This is part of the Buffalo Trace Oral History Project.  We're\nhere at the Buffalo Trace Distillery and Mark, thanks very much for\ntaking out time for this interview.\n \nBROWN: Welcome.\n \nTROLAND: Let's begin with just a simple question.  Tell me a little\nabout yourself.\n \nBROWN: Oh--well, not much to tell.  I grew up in a pub in England.  So,\nI grew up under the bar, literally, and have been under the bar ever\nsince.  But--my parents had a pub.  And eventually, I left the pub\nand went to work for a company that supplied alcohol to the pub--and\nthey then decided on an export adventure, so they packed me off to\nthe states for six months.  And uh, I came over, fell in love with the\ncountry, and never went home. And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then, in 1981, I met Bill Goldring,\nwho owns Sazerac, and we struck up a friendship.  And I eventually\nwent to work for the company.  And here we are some twenty-eight years\nlater.  In fact, I spent eleven years with Sazerac and then left in\n1992 and went to work for Brown-Forman.  Had five great years there,\nwhich is really what brought us to Kentucky.  And then, chap I'd been\nworking for at Sazerac left.  Bill asked me if I wanted to come back\nand uh, run Sazerac.  And I was excited at that opportunity, and that\nwas eleven years ago.  So, I've had twenty-two years with Sazerac, and\nfive years with Brown-Forman in the middle.\n \nTROLAND: So, tell me a little about bit about your, your parents.  They\nran a pub, and that kind of got you started under the bar?\n \nBROWN: Yes.  My father was a police officer at Scotland Yard.  So\nactually, I grew up in a police house, oh, and his father was a\npoliceman, and on my mother's side, they were all lawyers.  So, there\nwas ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lots of law enforcement in the house to some degree or other. But,\nhe retired early from the police force and uh, bought the pub, and that\nwas where I grew up.  It was a fascinating experience growing up as a\nyoung person constantly surrounded by adults.\n \nTROLAND: Where was this pub located?\n \nBROWN: It was about thirty-five miles from London, in a village of 300\npeople; small, rural pub.  It was a free house, which means it wasn't\nattached to any of the breweries.  It was able to buy beer from all\nsorts of different breweries.  So, we had quite a customer following.\nWe used to do beer specials and go to small breweries and buy\nindividual barrels and uh, market them, and people used to drive from\nmiles and miles around to come and enjoy themselves.\n \nTROLAND: How old were you when, when the pub came into the family?\n \nBROWN: About ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eleven. So, I had a good seven or eight years there,\ngrowing up under the bar.\n \nTROLAND: Is that expression, \"under the bar\" a British expression?\n \nBROWN: Yes.  It's usually where you find yourself after you've had\nrather too much to consume.  Or in my case, I was too short to see over\nthe bar, hence under the bar.\n \nTROLAND: So, what did you do when you where there eleven, twelve,\nthirteen years old--there?\n \nBROWN: Well, I started off in the cellar, racking barrels and um,\nlearning about how to keep beer in good condition.  Then, I spent quite\na bit of time filling shelves, and then eventually, I ended up serving\ncustomers.  And--finally, had a little bit of a hand in running the\npub, which was great fun.\n \nTROLAND: I would imagine that at a pub every now and then, something\ninteresting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happens. Is there a story you can think of about something\nthat happened one night at the pub? When you were eleven, or twelve, or\nthirteen or--\n \nBROWN: (laughs) No, actually, the, the memory is that the number of\nmales that would come in with their girlfriends during the week and\norder inexpensive drinks.  And then, believe it or not, would come in\nwith their wife over the weekend and buy expensive drinks.  Why--what\nwould possess anyone to bring their mistress and their wife to the same\npub, the same week was just a little bit hard to fathom.  But, it used\nto happen with a fair degree of regularity.  We, of course, had to try\nand keep the scorecard clear in our own minds, so we didn't step in,\nstep in and cause any problems.\n \nTROLAND: What did people typically drink in the pub?\n \nBROWN: We were a big beer--big beer pub.  Real ale pub serving\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"traditional English beers, which were very hard to find at that\ntime because that was still the era of the big brewery.  So, you had\nWatney's, was a very big and powerful brewery.  Courage was a very big\npowerful brewery--Allied, Whitbread--and they were into mass marketing,\nstandard pasteurized-type beers.  And so, we were really one of the\nreal ale pubs specializing in, in what would today be known as craft\nbeers and those types.  So, we were a rare animal in a, in a sort of\nfifty mile radius, if you will.  So we were a big beer pub; we got\nthrough a fair amount of wine, even though wine consumption in England\nwas in its early stages, and people were still wowed by French plunk\nand Spanish plunk.  I think they were wowed because no two bottles\nwere alike.  And--then, spirits were always pretty highly taxed in the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"U.K., so, our spirit business was probably the smallest of the three\nsegments.  And we did a fair amount of food as well.\n \nTROLAND: Did you have bourbon, by any chance, at your, at your family\npub?\n \nBROWN: We had I think a bottle of Old Granddad, stuffed on the top\nshelf of the back somewhere gathering dust.  We used to sell a lot of\nCanadian Club, and a lot of Southern Comfort--but nothing else off the\nAmerican continent.  And I'm not even really sure why we had the bottle\nof bourbon, because I, I can scarcely remember pouring any of it during\nthose years.\n \nTROLAND: I was told--at least in some parts of Europe--for example, in\nIreland, whiskey is viewed as an old person's drink.  Was that your\nimpression at the time when you were working at the pub?\n \nBROWN: Yes. I'd some think it was really more economical, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or economics-\nbased.  Um, spirits were quite pricey in those days, especially relative\nto beer.  So, most of the younger people were on beer budgets.  And\nthen the more affluent, and typically older, could afford spirits and\nthat's where you saw an increase in spirit consumption.  If we were\ndrinking spirits as younger people, it was somebody had bought a bottle\nof Grappa on a holiday in Italy for a dollar or a pound and brought it\nback, but, uh, spirits were really a little bit priced out of our, the\nyounger person's league.\n \nTROLAND: So, it's interesting, getting back to the question of customers\nwho came in both during the weekdays and also on weekends, weekdays\nwere the days to be out with your mistress?\n \nBROWN: Apparently so, yes; we were, business was reasonably quiet, and\nthey would bring in their uh, their mistress. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was maybe a\nTuesday or a Wednesday, lunch time.  And we were in a rural setting--\nlots of country lanes, lay-by's , places to park, scenic landscapes--so,\nwe were apparently a good afternoon run in the car for somebody--an\namorous couple.\n \nTROLAND: Where and when were you born?\n \nBROWN: I was born in 1492.  Actually, 1957, right opposite Hampton Court\nPalace, and that is as close as I've ever come to royalty.\n \nTROLAND: What is the Hampton Court Palace?\n \nBROWN: Hampton Court Palace was built by Henry the eighth.  It's one\nof the more spectacular palaces.  It's about ten miles, fifteen miles\noutside of central London, towards the southwest, and sits on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the River\nThames--extremely pretty setting.\n \nTROLAND: As you were growing up, of course, you were in or under the bar\nat different times, what in general interested you as a young person?\n \nBROWN: I was fascinated by business.  I thought the idea of running a\nbusiness--building a loyal client base--building, bringing customers\nin, and seeing them go away happy and seeing them tell other people\nand having them come back--that was inherently appealing.  And also,\nthe mechanics of, of taking cash across the counter, putting it into\nthe cash register and buying products and actually making a profit.  I\nthink that was--watching sales revenue grow and watching profits grow I\nthink was just a very interesting, fascinating concept.\n \nTROLAND: Did you have the sense that when ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the men left with their\nmistress in the weekdays they were happier? Or, speaking of customers\nleaving happy--or, when the men left with their wives in the weekends?\n \nBROWN: (laughs) I would definitely say the winner would have been the\nweekday arrivals and departures.  (laughs)\n \nTROLAND: Were you at all involved in the, in the business aspects of the\nfamily pub?\n \nBROWN: Yes I was.  The last two years I was there, my mother and father\nwere kind enough to let me take care of the profit loss statement.\nSo, that was quite good for a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year old\nto, to be able to do that.  We were actually able to increase profits,\nwhich was nice.  And the turnover was growing, we were getting more and\nmore customers, busier and busier.  And watching some of the marketing\nprograms work--we did beer of the week, which was a guest beer barrel\nspecial ale. And they could ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of--those barrels could of come from three\nhundred miles away, four hundred miles away, five hundred miles away\nand--once we got that program going, we would have an awful lot of\ncustomers showing up to find out what the beer of the week was.  And\nthis is all in the days pre-Internet.  I mean, there was no Internet\nmarketing or any of those capabilities.  No blogging, no websites.\nThis was good old-fashioned word of mouth.\n \nTROLAND: Were some of these ideas for marketing that you described at\nthe family pub your ideas? Did they come from your parents? Where did\nthey come from?\n \nBROWN: Well I'm generally too modest to take credit for much, so--I'd\nsay it was a collaborative effort.  But, we were very fortunate that it\nworked very well.  There was a growing interest in quote, \"real beer,\"\nor \"real ale.\" People were beginning to tire of uh, Watney's Red Barrel\nand--so, there was a little bit of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"momentum behind the trend. The\ncamera, which was the campaign for real ale, was beginning to take,\nto take hold.  So, there were quite a few consumers out there looking\nfor those type of, type of things.  We did branch off into cocktail of\nthe week, which turned out to be a spectacular failure, Um, cocktails\nin the U.K.  were a little bit unknown, and it was quite fiddly at\nthe time making them.  So, you had a very busy pub, run by fairly few\nstaff, and so, cocktail of the week did not get much traction.  So, we\ncontinued to press ahead with beer of the week, which did very well.\n \nTROLAND: So, would it be fair to say that this pub became a rather\nthriving business?\n \nBROWN: Uh--well, I think we like to think that it was, was quite\nsuccessful, and certainly a lot of fun.  They're hard work, and they're\nvery difficult to extend into a second pub ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or a third pub, because\nso much of it is about the people that run the pub, classic family\npub.  So, unless you have a very large family, it's tough to make\nextensions of yourself.  But, no, we had a good time and the business\nwas prosperous.  I think is how I would describe it.\n \nTROLAND: Is that pub still in the family?\n \nBROWN: No.  My parents sold it in 1982 or 3, and retired, again, and--\nbut the pub is still there.  In fact, I went there about three or four\nyears ago.  It looks good, looks in good shape, continues to prosper.\nIt's an old building.  The foundations and the cellar are all from the\ntwelve hundreds, thirteen hundreds.\n \nTROLAND: So, it's ancient to some extent--like the famous castle in\nVersailles here in Kentucky, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suppose.\n \nBROWN: Yes, it--it has some age to it.\n \nTROLAND: As you look back at that time in your life when you were a\nyoung, young man, young boy, was there an adult, either a parent or not\na parent who made a real difference in your life? Someone you look back\nand think had a major influence on your life?\n \nBROWN: Um, not really.  I've always been extremely independent.  So, I\ntend to march to what's in my head as opposed to external influences.\nBut, I've been around people, to be able to learn things to do and\nthings not to do.  I think you learn from people many times as much\nwhat not to do as what to do.  So, and I've been blessed to be around\nan awful lot of people and had an opportunity to watch behaviors and\nsee what works and what doesn't work and that type of thing.  But that\nindependent streak ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is--I don't know if it's preventing me, but that's\nhow I wake up in the morning.  My all-time hero, of course, is Winston\nChurchill.  That would be, if you, if you said to me, \"Who do I look\nat as a hero?\"or someone of that description, it would be Winston\nChurchill.\n \nTROLAND: Winston Churchill, I understand, had quite a thirst for\nbeverages.\n \nBROWN: Oh yes, he was quite a participant in our industry.  In fact,\nfor a while I sold the champagne that he drank.  Pol Roger--he had a\nhorse named after the champagne, Pol Roger.  And when he died, they put\na black line around the label on the outside of the bottle, as a mark\nof respect.  But yes, he was a brandy drinker, a champagne drinker.\nI haven't seen any records or any documents of him consuming bourbon.\nBut if he were still alive, I'd consider him an ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"opportunity.\n \nTROLAND: When you left the British equivalent of high school, what, what\nhappened next in your life?\n \nBROWN: That's when I went to work.  It was, it was a little bit less\nusual in England to go to college.  It really wasn't what you did.\nSo, I came out of high school and went straight to work in the pub.\nWhereupon I discovered working with my father was not a good idea on\na full time basis.  That was never going to be a relationship built to\nlast.  My--both my parents are Type A personalities, and three Type A\npersonalities in the room--little bit too much to, to handle.\n \nTROLAND: Better to have, I suppose, a Type A, B, and C. Better mixed.\nSo, once you realized that perhaps working in the family pub wasn't\ngoing to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be your future, because it wasn't a good fit, what did you\nthink what you wanted to do then? What was your next plan?\n \nBROWN: Well, I was clueless.  I mean, my academic studies at school were\natrocious.  I look back--pretty interesting waste of sixteen years.\nI think if I had to do it over again, I'd do it a lot more, but I\nwas, I was quite a challenge to myself in school.  So, I did not excel\nat that by any stretch of the imagination.  And--it certainly wasn't\ngoing to work with my parents in the pub, so I ended up with a number\nof different type of fill-in jobs.  We were quite fortunate.  We had\na racing stable across the street that was run by Dick Francis and\nhis son--as in Dick Francis, the novelist.  And so, I spent quite a\nlot of time at race tracks watching horses.  That's part of why I like\nKentucky, growing up ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with that. And, um, after that, I ended up one\nsummer on a building site, filling a cement mixer.  And that was the\nday I got religion.  Because as I saw the cement mixer going around\nand around all summer long, you can see the rest of your life spinning\nbefore you, so that was when I went to work for one of the suppliers to\nthe pub.  And--very lucky--I mean, fell into a sales job and found that\nwas what I really liked doing.  And so from there, that was really when\nmy career got some traction.  But, it was fortunate to find something\nthat was actually a real interest and motivation.  And that was--that\nset the path for what has followed.\n \nTROLAND: How old were you when you began to work for the supplier?\n \nBROWN: Eighteen.  Youngest sales guy they had ever hired by about five\nyears.  So, I'm sure I was quite obnoxious and brattish and surrounded\nby people in their forties and fifties who'd been selling for a very\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"long time and here is--I must have been looked upon as a baby, showing\nup and selling.  And I had the east end of London, as the territory.\nSo that was the area that was all bombed out after the war--and quite\na rough and tumble.  It's a little bit like New York's--or London's\nequivalent of Harlem would be a good way to describe it.  But great\npeople that lived there--interesting place to be.\n \nTROLAND: What did you sell?\n \nBROWN: Cider, alcoholic cider, which is a big category in the U.K.  And\nat that time, it was growing--quite a lot of young people.  They had\nfigured out how to put it on tap.  Previously, it had always been sold\nin bottles.  But, they had figured out how to put in on tap, and that\nwas driving some consumption in bars and those type of accounts. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, I\nhad 600--690 odd pubs to call on, and a handful of stores.\n \nTROLAND: At what point did you come to the United States?\n \nBROWN: Well, interesting story.  I'd been selling for a couple of years,\nand then they had been dumb enough to promote me to sales trainer.\nSo now, at twenty, I'm training other people how to sell.  And then a\nmanagement position came open, which I applied for.  They very politely\ntold me that I was too young for the position.  What they really should\nof said which was the truth, which was far too obnoxious and pushy\nand--they certainly weren't going to let me loose on the lives of seven\nor eight people so they said, \"How would you like to go to the states\nfor six months as part of our export adventure?\" So, that seemed like a\npretty exciting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"opportunity. The thing was the whole project, and the\nU.S.  was a little surreal.  So, now I would be twenty-two.  We show up\nto depart from England and the guy who is running the adventure hands\nme first class tickets on TWA.  April 20th, 1980.  We get off the plane\nin New York.  They have a white Rolls Royce Corniche, with the name of\nthe company on the license plate.  And they had a swank apartment in\nNew York, and a swank apartment in Washington D.C., and no sales.\n \nTROLAND: So, what did you do about that?\n \nBROWN: Well, the first thing we had to do is generate some sales.  But\neventually, I came to find out that it was really just a boondoggle for\nthe directors of the company--come over to the states and vacation and\nenjoy themselves; hey were very mixed up in their business objectives.\nBut we did get some business going in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the U.S.--cider in the U.S.\nis a tough sell.  The regulatory environment makes it difficult in\nsome states to actually sell alcoholic cider.  Plus the fact in many\nstates, cider is considered to be a non-alcoholic, and then hard cider\nis considered to be the alcoholic version.  So, and they've never\nreally managed to overcome all of those issues.  There are some brands\nthat have done well--Hornsby's, um, Woodchuck--but, it's been spotty\nat best.  I think wine coolers have probably filled that niche, that\nflavor-taste profile, that area.  So, we struggled along.  We got into\ntwenty-odd states.  Then I met--as I said, I met Bill Goldring, and\none thing led to another, and then I went to work for Sazerac in 1981,\nin August.  Got married, changed jobs, changed countries in the same\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"week. (laughs)\n \nTROLAND: Is your wife an American?\n \nBROWN: She's English.\n \nTROLAND: English, oh.\n \nBROWN: We met at the--we worked, both worked for the same company is how\nwe got to meet.\n \nTROLAND: So, when you began working for the Sazerac Company, where were\nyou located and what did you first do?\n \nBROWN: We were in New Orleans living in a rented apartment eating\nninety-nine cent pizzas, for a considerable amount of time.  But, I\nwas looking after new products and new markets for Sazerac.  Which is\npeculiar, because Sazerac only did business in nine states and had a\npretty small portfolio.  So, in point of fact, new markets turned out\nto be a large number of states, and we had a couple of brands.  We had\na blue peppermint schnapps liqueur called Aspen, which was doing quite\nwell in Peoria. So, I suppose the adage about if it plays in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Peoria,\nit will play anywhere is not exactly accurate.  Because we could not\nget it sell elsewhere, but--so, that's what I did for a couple of years\nwith Sazerac and then eventually took over as national sales director.\nAnd then eventually took over as V.P.  sales and marketing, which took\nme all the way up to 1992.\n \nTROLAND: What did you find appealing about that time--your first\nperiod of time at Sazerac about the job, and what if anything perhaps\nunappealing?\n \nBROWN: Well, the, the appealing aspects--we had a very supportive owner,\nwho was extremely interested in seeing the company grow.  And then,\nhe was very happy to let us go and do it without any um, interference,\nbeing very supportive--\"You guys go, you guys do.\" So, we went through\na pretty rapid period of expansion. The company was four times ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bigger\nby the time we got to 1992 than it was in 1981.  So, we were acquiring\nbrands, we were taking on new brand projects, and built a national\ndistribution network and really had a very, we were very fortunate\nduring that period of time and experienced a lot of growth.  It was\nreally a fun time, and I don't look back on that with any particular--\nthere is nothing in particular I didn't like about that, that period.\n \nTROLAND: So, the owner was not especially involved in the--\n \nBROWN: No, Bill's never been, has never been involved in the operations\nof Sazerac.  He's been extremely good about saying, \"Look, you know,\ntreat it as your business, you go and run it and I'll be as supportive\nas I can about, about following what you guys need done.\" And he's been\ntrue to that the whole time up to and including ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"today.\n \nTROLAND: In those early days at Sazerac, what did you think this job\nmight lead to? What were your hopes for the future at that stage?\n \nBROWN: I think we were more interested in what the company could\nbecome, and building Sazerac into an exciting dynamic company within\nthe spirits business.  That was really what--I've always thought about\nthings more in context of the business you're building as opposed to\nyour, your own selfish interests--in the belief that if you do the\nright things for the business, then good things will happen to the\nindividuals in it, including yourself.\n \nTROLAND: What was a typical workday in those days.  Were you traveling a\nlot? Where you on the phone a lot? What did you do?\n \nBROWN: Oh, there was a lot of travel involved.  The day would typically\nstart at 4:20 A.M., mainly to beat the traffic.  I have no particular\ndesire to get up ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"early in the morning but, traffic is far worse.\nNew Orleans traffic can be pretty bad if you miss it by fifteen\nminutes either way.  So, I used to get into the office at 6:30, and\nthen we would just pound out the day.  Talking to a lot of customers,\nprogramming, selling, and then, there was a lot of travel, lot of trips\nwe were involved, spending time with distributors, make sure they would\ntake our brands on.  Sell the brands, promote the brands--quite a bit\non the acquisition front.  Looking at projects, evaluating projects.  I\nsorted my academic woes out during that period of time, I went back to\nTulane took my M.B.A., got that all put, put to bed.  (laughs)\n \nTROLAND: Was there anyone at that time with whom you worked who had an\ninfluence on what you're doing, someone you remember fondly or, or for\nsome other reason?\n \nBROWN: Yes, Peter Bordeaux, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the, the guy who ran the company that I\nworked for, he and I worked together for eleven years.  I learned some\nthings from Peter that were good, and then I learned some things from\nPeter that I have studiously avoided--being like or doing.  So, I think\nwatching Peter work was instructional.  And we worked very closely as\na, as a team.  We were completely different, but compatible.\n \nTROLAND: And so the good things you learned from him were the work ethic\nof the method of organization? What?\n \nBROWN: Yes.  Peter was very bright, very strategic.  So, I think some of\nthe strategic perspective--to the extent I've picked up any would have\ncome from there.  But Peter was disorganized, chaotic, no idea about\nfocus or prioritization, that type of thing.  So, if you imagine the\nscene in Toys R' Us, he'd be out front, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"picking up toys off the shelf\nand just throwing them over his shoulder into the basket.  And I'm the\nclown following behind with the basket, trying to keep all the toys in\nsome type of order.  And that was how we went.  But the business grew,\num, it grew and grew.\n \nTROLAND: As you look back on that time with Sazerac, what would you say\nis your proudest achievement?\n \nBROWN: I think the fact that we quadrupled the size of the company\nand took it from being a small, sleepy, regional company, to being a\nnational business.\n \nTROLAND: Now, at some point in your life, you became interested in\nbourbon, because that's part of your life today.  When did you first\nbecome involved in the business of bourbon?\n \nBROWN: Well, in 1992, I actually was contacted by a recruiter working\nfor ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brown-Forman, and they were looking for someone to run their\nspecialty brands division which they had just put together.  And that\ndivision had Glenmorangie in it, Gentleman Jack, Bushmills--and that\njob was based up here in Louisville.  So, actually my first day was\nMarch thirty-first.  No one thought it was a good idea to start working\nfor Brown-Forman on April first.  So, we came up to Kentucky in 1992,\nand started on that adventure.  So--and I had been to Kentucky in 1983,\nand I had quasi-fallen in love with the bourbon industry then, and\nbeing English, without a red cent of Scots in my blood anywhere, it\nseemed to me that, uh, bourbon's a very nice thing to give the Scots\na run for their money with. And I actually think bourbon is a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"far\nsuperior product to all other whiskey products, because of the rules\nand regulations that surround it.  So, I started to get some, some\ninvolvement in that 1992 and 1993.  Then, Brown-Forman went through\na change in leadership from Lee Brown to Owsley Brown, and they asked\nme if I'd be interested in looking after their--the markets in the\nworld where Jack Daniels had never really been sold before.  Which\nsurprisingly turned out to be 183 countries.  So, we had responsibility-\n-the group we put together had responsibility for all of Latin America,\nall of Asia with the exception of Japan, all of Africa, all of the\nC.I.S.  (Commonwealth of Independent States), as it was at the time-\n-which was really the former U.S.S.R., and we had responsibility for\nAustralia and New Zealand--and had a blast.  We had a hundred and\nfifty, sixty people in twenty-three different countries in three ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years.\nLaunched Jack Daniels in a host of countries from Angola, to South\nAfrica, to Korea, to the Czech Republic to Hungary, Brazil, Chile,\nArgentina--and that was really when you could see ninety million cases\nof scotch selling around the world.  You could see the opportunity\nthat exi-, existed and still exists today.  And the only reason scotch\nsells around the world is because of the British Empire.  You know,\nthe British went marching in to various and sundry countries, they\ntypically didn't call back home and say, \"Send bourbon.\" So they took\ntheir native spirit with them and it stuck.  So, they got a head start\nbecause of history.  But I think bourbon can be a formidable competitor\nfor Scotch whisky.  Which is really our mission--and the mission of\nsuccessive generations.  Because we won't get it done in my lifetime.\nWe can make ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some progress--but that real goal of driving bourbon into\nglobal success is a project that's going to take forty or fifty years.\n \nTROLAND: Do you feel that the market--marketing successes you had at\nthat time with Jack Daniels represented a step in that direction for\nbourbon in general?\n \nBROWN: Yes, clearly Jack Daniels is seen through the eyes of consumers\nas American, and whiskey, and then I think it gets much fuzzier, so I\ndon't know what the average Chinese person--I think they get about as\nfar as American whiskey, and that's about as far as it goes.  So, you\ncould, you could say that it's sort of part of the American whiskey\nexpansion.  I think delineating bourbon, and separating it from\nTennessee whiskey and from rye whiskey, all of that will take time,\nbut it'll come, eventually.  But yes, very much a step in the right\ndirection. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"America, around the world, it's a, sort of a schizophrenic-\n-they love the freedom and independence that we have.  And then they\nhate the loud plaid jackets, and the, some of the arrogance that we've\nmanaged to display.  But in terms of consumer goods, I think bourbon\nrepresents a lot of that freedom and independence.  And Jack Daniels is\ncertainly representative of that.  So, consumer goods are well liked-\n-Coca Cola, for example--and apparently McDonald's in ever-growing\nquantities.\n \nTROLAND: Was that a period of very substantial growth for Jack Daniels\nsales as you penetrated the markets in many different countries?\n \nBROWN: Yes.  The period of ninety-four to ninety-seven and subsequent\nto that has been a great period of growth for Brown-Forman, and been\nhighly successful with Jack Daniels.  I still think there's a fair\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"amount of growth left in Jack Daniels as a global brand. So, it\nremains to be seen whether they can access that growth, but clearly,\nlots of opportunity.\n \nTROLAND: I didn't realize there were any countries where Jack Daniels\nwas not sold, so that realization probably is testament to the success\nthat you and your colleagues had in getting it out in the world.\n \nBROWN: It was a real team effort.  I think there were scatterings of\nJack Daniels that found it's way--you know, the global market is fairly\nporous, so goods go to Turkey, or goods go to Rotterdam, and then they\nfind their, find their way to all sorts of strange places.  But as a\nfull-fledged launch and broad, broad distribution in a country like\nKorea, that's really taken Brown-Forman fourteen, fifteen years to, to\nachieve.  But it's been very successful.\n \nTROLAND: I've heard it said that Jack Daniels is the most widely\nrecognized brand of whiskey in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"world. Is that your understanding\nalso?\n \nBROWN: Well, I'd have to give the nod to Johnny Walker.  At this stage,\nthe Johnny Walker walking man, and Johnny Walker red and Johnny Walker\nblack would be, I think the most recognized whisky brand.  Jack Daniels\nis certainly doing well, and certainly getting a broader and broader\naudience, but I still think Johnny Walker would be the, the number one.\n \nTROLAND: Let's talk a little bit about your return to the Sazerac\nCompany later on after you left Brown-Forman.  What brought that about?\n \nBROWN: Well, Peter Bordeaux had been running Sazerac had left.  Bill\nGoldring called and said, \"Would you have an interest in coming\nback to Sazerac?\" I think he almost expected me to say, \"No.\" But he\nmiscalculated on one, on one key thought process.  And that was the\nsimple fact that we had never finished what we set out to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"achieve with\nSazerac.  We'd had a lot of success, but we've really never created\nthe type of business that we wanted to, to create.  So, I hate leaving\nthings unfinished, and as much as I could have foreseen a long-range\nfuture at Sazerac, the fact--the long range future at Brown-Forman,\nthe fact that we had not finished the job at Sazerac was immensely\nappealing.  I also knew Bill, and I knew how he was going to behave and\nhow he was--\"If you come back as the captain of the ship, you are the\ncaptain of the ship,\" and again, you would be able to estimate that he\nwas going to be very supportive of what we wanted to try and get done.\nThe new dimension was of course that this distillery had been acquired\nshortly after I left.  I'd worked a little bit on the project prior to\nleaving Sazerac, and then they had bought this distillery, um, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2220.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shortly\nafter I left.  So, the biggest debate that we had was where I was going\nto live.  Was I going to move back to New Orleans, or was I gonna live\nhere.  In the period that we've been here, we put roots down, so--I\nwasn't about to move out of the state of Kentucky and made a reasonable\nargument that this being the, one of the larger assets that it made\nsense to stay in Kentucky and be here with the largest asset.  Then, I\nmade the fatal mistake of coming out here and taking a look.  That very\nnearly completely queered the pitch.\n \nTROLAND: What was there about the site that you saw that you came to\nvisit that led you to question?\n \nBROWN: Well, I would start with the fourteen foot fence around the whole\nplace, and then the razor wire on top added a certain dimension of\ninterest to the whole, the whole thing.  I--I couldn't quite figure it\nout whether it was to keep the out mates out or the inmates in. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2280.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But\nit was not the most attractive and appealing site.  But, just like you\nmight go to an art auction or yard sale, and happen across a picture,\nan ugly picture--and you might even buy that picture for the frame.\nBut then when you get the thing home and you take the frame off and\nyou begin to discover there's another picture underneath, you could\nsee pieces that would suggest that there was something underneath the\nfourteen foot fence and the razor wire.  And--so, one think led to\nanother, and back I came in ninety-seven to, to see what we could do.\n \nTROLAND: How long did it take you to get the fence down?\n \nBROWN: Not long. There was a bit of a, bit of a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2340.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"horror. There was\na great deal of insecurity around the idea of taking down the fence.\nIt wasn't quite a Gorbachev/Reagan moment about tearing down the\nwall.  But--we got rid of the fence pretty quickly.  The journey of\ndiscovery was probably two years.  Extensive research on the history,\nwhich produced spectacular results--absolutely no idea how much history\nwas here.  Then, the second revelation was just how good the whiskey\nthat was being made here was, just incredible.  So, two completely\nunknown things.  Then, once you got the razor wire and the fence down,\nyou began to see the potential of the natural beauty.  And so, by\nthe time we got to 1988--1999, it was very apparent that this was an\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2400.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"undiscovered work of art. Which was wonderful.\n \nTROLAND: It was not just the frame?\n \nBROWN: It was not just the frame.  There was a Monet, or a Rembrandt\nunderneath the ugly picture of your mother in law that was sitting on\ntop of it.  So, we've gradually been scraping off all the remnants of\nthe mother in law and working our way down and restoring the Rembrandt.\n \nTROLAND: Was this the first foray of the Sazerac Company into the\nbourbon business--acquisition of this distillery?\n \nBROWN: We had purchased in 1987 the Benchmark bourbon brand and the\nEagle Rare bourbon brand from Seagram.  But we never owned any, any\ndistillery to produce that.  So, we were buying bourbon on the open\nmarket. And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2460.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that was one of my first lessons in the bourbon business.\nWe--the brand had been sold using Seagram whiskey.  When we bought the\nbrand, Seagram would not sell us any whiskey.  So, we changed suppliers\nto someone who will remain nameless.  We started to get hate mail from\nBenchmark consumers, particularly in North Carolina and Virginia.  I\nmean, I think if they had had it in their mind to, they would have\nbeen marching on the offices in New Orleans with placards.  Because the\ntaste change was immediate and obvious, and to their mind, offensive.\nAnd so one think I learned very early about the bourbon business is\nyou don't go around changing recipes and changing flavors without a\ngreat degree of care and attention--because consumers really know their\nwhiskey.  And when you start messing around with it, they tend to have\nallergic reactions to that.  So, we had dabbled a little bit in the\nbourbon business. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2520.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But this was a substantial investment, and really a\nfirst foray at Sazerac into, into the whiskey business.\n \nTROLAND: So, where does the whiskey business fit now into the priorities\nof the Sazerac Company?\n \nBROWN: It's an extraordinarily important part of our past, our present,\nand our future.\n \nTROLAND: And what about the history of this place--just to go back to\ncomments you made earlier.  You said, \"The more you were here, the\nmore you learned about the history.  How did you find out about this\nhistory, and what are some of the highlights of what you learned?\n \nBROWN: Well, we had two documents.  One was a piece of research done\nby Dan Churchill, which I would call the foundation.  And then Richard\nTaylor, former poet laureate of Kentucky came in and did The Great\nCrossing book for us. And between those two pieces of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2580.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"work, we really\ncame to build a deep understanding.  For me, the most significant part\nis the fact that this site was started in 1773, three years before\nwe all departed from the motherland, or the mother ship.  And what it\nsays to me is that the evolution at this site chronicles the evolution\nof the United States.  And so, when you look at the history here,\nand you look at the architecture here, you can see how it parallels\nthe industrial development, if you will, of the United States.  And I\nthink that, to have that on one sight, with its integrity intact, in\nthis day and age, is quite, is quite a remarkable find.  And that is\na very striking--and then you add the natural beauty to the place, and\nthe fact that somebody in 1935 thought to build this ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2640.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cabin when they\ncould of put up a block building--that someone took the time to build\nthe gardens--and that's a lot of the motivation.  When I die and get\ncarried out of here in a pine box, I want to make sure that we hand\nthis place off to the next generation.  And that in another hundred\nyears, somebody will say, \"Thank goodness they did those things for\nthe distillery,\" in the same that we appreciate what Albert Blanton did\nback in 1920, 1930, 1935.  And the fact that he left us a legacy.  I\nthink it's important that we do the same--the same thing.  That it be\npreserved, promoted, enhanced--because it is a remarkable collection of\nbuildings and architecture and history.  Hence, our interest in making\nsure it becomes a national historic landmark and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2700.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all the little added\nprotections that will come with that.\n \nTROLAND: So, this somebody you mentioned earlier is Albert Blanton?\n \nBROWN: Yes, I think Blanton--if you look at the history of the\ndistillery, it's very clear that the Schwigert family--that the early\nsettlers, the Hancocks, the Lees, the McAfees--who founded Leestown--\nit's quite amusing when you think of there was \"Lee's Town\" and \"Frank's\nFort\" up the road, who I guess were duking it out at some point to\nbecome state capital.  I guess Frank and his fort won the thing, and\nLee and his town did not.  But those early pioneers who settled here--\nit must have been a reasonably intimidating prospect back in those days,\nI mean, I think we are so modernized with our Walgreens on the corner\nand our supermarkets, and our cars, and our roads, and--but back then,\nit had to be a whole different ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2760.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"world, and I'm not entirely sure they\nknew exactly what they were going to run into in some of these parts.\nSo there--they get a lot of credit for settling the sight, and clearly\nthere were some economic reasons to settle the sight, given that this\nwas probably as far up river you could go without unloading everything.\nBut, beyond that, the Schwigerts who put up the distillery--there's\nnot much known about them in that 1857 period.  Then clearly, Edmond\nHaynes Taylor, coming here in 1870 had a profound impact, and when\nhe went bankrupt, George T. Stagg, who rescued the whole affair.  And\nthen Blanton, who--the man had an impeccable sense of horrible timing,\nbecoming president in 1917, just when World War I gets going for\nthe United States.  He has to deal with Prohibition.  No sooner than\nProhibition, is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2820.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then the Great Depression to deal with. As soon as the\nGreat Depression is dealt with, he's got World War II.  Albert's entire\nspan here was pock marked with one crater after another from World War\nI, to Prohibition, to the Great Depression, to World War II.  Quite a\nremarkable set of challenges.  We think we have it tough today with,\nwith things.  Back in his time, I think to myself, \"Goodness gracious-\n-quite a set of challenges.\" And the fact that he did all of that and\nthe distillery prospered, really prospered, and that he was able, while\nhe was doing all that to build these type of buildings--quite, quite\nremarkable.\n \nTROLAND: You say that the site here has vestiges of a very long period\nof development in American history.  What are some of the earliest\nvestiges--physical vestiges that are here, that date back--\n \nBROWN: The oldest building would be ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2880.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1792. And that's the little house\nthat sits just outside our backdoor here that was built by Commodore\nRichard Taylor to--he was brought here after the French Indian War\nto build the lock and dam system.  And that house remains today, and\nit's a restoration project for us.  We, we're arguing, quite frankly,\ndebating with the historical folks about what the right way to renovate\nthe property is.  My own concept would be to take off the second floor\nof the building, which belongs to the 1800s, and restore it as a period\nhouse.  1792--unfortunately, we can't find anybody who remembers what\nthey looked like back then.  But, I think the consensus of the majority\nopinion is we should restore it as is, including the 1857 second ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=2940.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"floor.\nSo, I don't think I'm going to prevail in this argument.  But either\nway, we're gonna restore the, the building--upstairs and downstairs,\nas close as we can get to the original.  And that will be a really nice\npiece when it's finished.\n \nTROLAND: Focusing on more modern history at the distillery, you came to\nthe distillery in 1997, is that correct?\n \nBROWN: Correct.\n \nTROLAND: And you were greeted with, among other things, walls that\nneeded to be torn down.  As you view the history of the distillery from\nthat time, 1997 to the present, what do you think are among the biggest\nchanges that have occurred, apart from the removal of a wall?\n \nBROWN: Apart from tearing down the wall, and the wires, and--I think\nit's really been the renovation and restoration of the distillery.\nThat, that clearly when you look back over the eleven ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3000.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years--so\nfirst of all, you have the renovation and restoration of the whole\ninfrastructure, which now is about fifty million dollars worth of\ninvestment into, into the property over that period of time.  Secondly,\nhas been the astonishing run of medals and awards, and recognition for\nthe distillery.  To have won Distillery of the Year seven times--to\nhave been the first American distillery to ever win Distillery of the\nYear Award--to have accumulated the medals.  There's no distillery\nanywhere in the world--among the 6,000 distilleries that are in the\nworld that have won as many awards and medals and decorations and\naccolades as this distillery--for a bunch of Johnny Come Latelys--\n1773--that's pretty good.  I think that's really a testimony to the--to\nthe, to the distillery and people. And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3060.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people ask about, well, you\nknow, \"How come you're making great whiskey?\" The answer is, we've\nalways made great whiskey.  And the reason we make great whiskey is\nbecause of the hand me downs and the people that have been involved\nin the distillery over the years.  I think what we've done is a more\neffective job, quite frankly, of, um, presenting the whiskey as we\nmake, to the consuming public and to the press.  That's really been\nthe difference-maker.  And so, I wouldn't sit around and say, \" Oh yes,\nall of a sudden, we've completely redone the way we make whiskey and\neverything else.  I think we've made improvements in a number of areas,\nand certainly restoring the equipment, and investing in new equipment\nhas helped.  But the distillery has a long track record of making great\nwhiskey because of the few ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3120.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"number of master distillers we've had over\nthe years and the tenure of the people that work here.  And the love\nand care, quite frankly that they, that they've put in.  We've just\ndone now a better job of presenting that to an eager public that's\nbeen very appreciative of those, of those efforts.  So, it is nice to\nhave the distillery restored.  We still got a lot more to do in the\nmaster plan.  And it's been wonderful the recognition for the whiskey\nthat's coming out here.  And we've been helped, because the bourbon\nindustry was collapsing in the seventies and eighties, and we've been\nhelped by a turnaround in that trend with consumers showing renewed\ninterest in bourbon.  Which is helpful, given that we've invested fifty\nmillion dollars in the site.  It was lucky that--or fortunate, that the\nconsumers responded very ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3180.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"well.\n \nTROLAND: What do you think has caused this turnaround in consumer\nperspective on bourbon, and what role do you think Buffalo Trace has\nplayed in that turnaround?\n \nBROWN: Well, I think you've--you have a--despite our current economic\nwoes, you have a generally wealthier population, with more disposable\nincome.  And certainly, alcohol is an affordable luxury.  And you also\nhave a better educated population.  And I think to some extent, we've\nbeen able to overcome the problem that California wine makers had in\nthe eighties, and the seventies--when it was Boone's Farm, Strawberry\nHill, and Gallo chardonnay--or Gallo Chablis, or Gallo hearty burgundy.\nWell-made products, but not exactly sitting at the table with French\nBordeaux.  And then they had the tasting of Paris, which really changed\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3240.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"everything. And they were able to start to get over this terrible\nphobia Americans have about the fact that whatever we make here is in\nsome way inferior.  And that this lust for imported goods--which has\nbeen so strong, they were able to start breaking that down.  In the\nsame way, when Americans discover the quality standards that bourbon\nis held to, you're able to tell a very compelling story about the\nquality of bourbon whiskey.  And quite frankly, the whole problem\nis exacerbated in the seventies and sixties by the big producers,\nincluding Schenley, who owned this distillery--because it was all\nabout mass market.  So, they took a handcrafted, handmade product,\nin a handmade industry, and converted it into Ford, General Motors,\nand Chrysler.  And it was all about packing big bottles of bourbon in\nas inexpensive a container, inexpensive packaging, and putting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3300.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this\nwonderful handmade, hand crafted product out at lower and lower prices,\nin lower and lower quality packages.  And the consumer responded\nby going off and buying completely different spirits.  Bill Samuels\ngets a lot of credit, or his dad does--for representing Maker's Mark,\nwhich got things started.  Al--Elmer T. Lee gets a lot of credit for\nBlanton's single-barrel, which were really the early runners of saying\nto American consumers, \"Wait a minute--Cabin Still is not the poster\nchild for the bourbon industry, and there are--there's a story to be\ntold here.\" And I think that's why the industry has been successful,\nis because we've increasingly been able to, to tell that story to a\npopulation that is interested in being better educated about spirits,\nand relationships with brands have changed. People ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3360.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are no longer\ncontent to go to the store and pull something off the shelf without\nknowing a little bit more about that product.  And all of that work\nhas been very helpful in getting the consumer.  So, to the extent we've\nplayed any role in that, however small, is nice.\n \nTROLAND: Are you hoping--\n \n \n[Pause in recording.]\n \n \nTROLAND: Okay, we are continuing now, our interview with Mark Brown,\nit is April 30, 2009, this is part of the Buffalo Trace Oral History\nProject, and we are at the Buffalo Trace Distillery.  I can't resist\nasking you if you would not like to organize perhaps a tasting in\nEdinburgh, to mimic the tasting in Paris some years ago.  Perhaps any\nthoughts on that prospect?\n \nBROWN: (laughs) Ah, well, I suspect the Scots have watched the tasting\nof Paris and would probably man the barricades to prevent a repeat of\nthat fiasco happening in uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3420.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Scotland. So, I don't hold out any hopes\nof doing that.  But, I do know that in international competitions,\nbourbon's been getting very good reviews.  And I like the quality\nstandards that are applied to bourbon.  I think they force a great\ndegree of integrity into the product, which is an important back stop\nfor those of us that would not want to see inferior, cheap bourbons--\nquality bourbons showing up.\n \nTROLAND: Without going into all the technical details, what is one\nexample of a quality standard that applies to bourbon that perhaps does\nnot apply to other whiskeys such as Scotch whisky?\n \nBROWN: No additives.  No coloring, no wine in the back of the product.\nJust what comes out of the barrel, plus water, is what goes into\nthe bottle.  And I think that, right there, is a very significant\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3480.0,3540.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"contributor to the integrity and the quality. New barrels would be the\nnext thing that would immediate--would spring to mind.\n \nTROLAND: As you look back over your last ten years or so--ten to twelve\nyears here at Buffalo Trace.  You've obviously worked with a lot of\npeople, perhaps a few colorful characters--any stories that come to\nmind regarding uh, happenings around the distillery?\n \nBROWN: Hmm--nothing off the top of my mind.  I am in--I think in\nthe people sense, Elmer T. Lee has been a wonderful person to work\nalongside.  He's like the grandfather I never had.  Which is how I\nlook upon Elmer.  And then Jimmy Johnson, quite the most remarkable\nindividual, and his son Freddie.  Ronnie and Leonard--we've talked\nRonnie and Leonard out of retiring on at ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3540.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"least three occasions.\nBecause what they bring to the distillery is so vitally important.\nNot only in terms of their everyday performance, but their\ninstitutional knowledge and their wonderful understanding of the\nwarehouse systems.  And I think Harlen has done a remarkable job of\ntaking over from Gary Gayheart and, and becoming the master distiller.\nSo, to work alongside those people is great fun.\n \nTROLAND: Bourbon is certainly viewed as a traditional, down-home\nAmerican product, a down-home industry, and advertising for bourbon\nand other American whiskies often show scenes of down-home folks just\nsitting around doing their thing.  You're from, from the U.K.  You're\nfrom a different culture.  How, how does the fact that you're from a\ndifferent ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3600.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"country affect your interactions with the people who make\nbourbon and with the bourbon industry?\n \nBROWN: Well, an interesting question.  I don't know if I've ever given\nany thought to that.  Probably from a perspective point of view, I,\nhaving not grown up in the United States, I don't have perhaps some\nof the preconceptions around the bourbon.  So, I've not fallen into\nany of those.  So, perhaps one can be slightly more objective about\nthe product.  By the same token, I've been here long enough that I\nwake up as an American every day; I love this country, I think it's a\nwonderful country.  I think some of the bashing that goes on is wholly\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3660.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inappropriate, and I think if we can get over ourselves to some extent\nand start to take some pride in what we've achieved and what we bring.\nCouple that with perhaps a little better understanding of the rest of\nthe world out there, I think we'll get along just fine.  But um--so,\nno, it seems to of--we seem to of all gotten along quite well together\nand I can step out of all that and become British periodically.\n \nTROLAND: What is, what are your thoughts regarding the bourbon industry\nin the future? Where do you think it might go? Where would you like to\nsee it go?\n \nBROWN: Well, I--as I said earlier, I think that bourbon whiskey has\na wonderful opportunity to become a forty or fifty million case\nbusiness around the world.  I feel very passionately about the economic\nopportunity in Kentucky.  I think the challenges we face in Kentucky\nare fascinating, because we ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3720.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"live in a great state. Interestingly\nenough, it has roughly the same population as Scotland--four million\npeople, give or take.  On a geographic land mass--although it's a\nslightly different shape, it has roughly the same geographic land\nmass as Scotland.  Scotch whisky to the Scottish economy is about six\nbillion dollars in exports.  And bourbon whisky--I doubt whether it\ngets to 250 million in export value at this stage.  So, you think about\nthe economic--potential economic impact of this state.  It's clearly\nenormous.  But, we have a state that--a large part of the state would\njust as soon, I think, alcohol not be here.  And then you have a lot\nof people that think it's wonderful having us here.  But that's the\ndichotomy that is Kentucky.  We have a large part of the population\nthat would just as ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3780.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"soon Kentucky stay in the eighteenth century. And\nthen there are the more progressive people in the state, that would\nlike to extol the virtues of the state and see it grow.  And we have\nthis sort of conflict, if you will.  We see it in all parts and walks\nof life of our wonderful state.  Sports franchises being a pretty\ngood example of--where an NBA franchise comes up, there's sort of hand\nwringing in Louisville about, \"Oh, do we really want that type of thing\nhere?\" And then you got other people that are, \"Oh gosh, yes.  Let's\ngo get it.\" So, we deal with this, just in a slightly different cut.\nBut I think eventually, we will do a better job of communicating the\nopportunity to the state.  The interesting thing about our industry\nas distinct from other industries is we also have the inbound tourism\ncapability.  And I think tourism, using the Bourbon Trail as an anchor,\nis an enormous opportunity.  I don't see any reason at all why we can't\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3840.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bring a million unique visitors to Kentucky to see the Bourbon Trail,\nwhich is about roughly what goes through the Scottish distilleries.\nBut we have a lot of work to do.  Everybody is gradually waking up\nto the, to the idea and the opportunity.  But I still think we're only\nscratching the surface.  So, I'd think that the prospects for bourbon\nare tremendous.  I mean, we've got a great quality story.  We know\nconsumers around the world.  Many of them are still under the legal\ndrinking age.  They will become drinkers eventually, so there will\nbe more consumers out there.  And as they become economically better\noff, they will endeavor to--undoubtedly start to trade up and, and\nexperiment.  I just think it's important we make sure that bourbon is\nthere, ready, and that the Scots don't elbow us to one side.  And you\nhave other--Canadians, they're ambitious with their ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3900.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"industry. And the\nIrish--Jameson's been doing very well.  So it's not--we're gonna have\nto compete to, to achieve that, which is great.\n \nTROLAND: Now you've said on a number of occasions that the best bourbon\nis yet to be made.\n \nBROWN: Yes.\n \nTROLAND: What do you mean by that?\n \nBROWN: Well, I think that we've had a couple of bourbons that have\nscored ninety-nine out of a hundred in a taste test.  But I haven't\nseen any hundreds yet.  And that is a little bit of our mantra for the\nbest bourbon has yet to be made--I think that we also believe that's\nthe case.  So, we have this project called Holy Grail, which ironically\nmay end up being very similar to the Holy Grail that we may search\nforever--and it's a worthwhile search, and we may, or we may not get\nthere. I also think it's a useful ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=3960.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way to challenge our organization.\nTo say, \"Okay, so we've won 170 medals.  And we've won the distillery\nof the year seven times, and it would be very easy to rest on our\nlaurels.  But that's not satisfactory.\" Because there are so many\nthings to try, and so many things to do, and so many things we don't\nunderstand about the whiskey that we produce.  We've only documented\nhalf of the naturally occurring chemicals in a bottle of bourbon.\nStill, a half of them are unidentified because they're in such small\nquantities.  We don't really understand how two chemicals combine to\nproduce a third chemical.  So, the first part of the project is to\nreally build a much deeper understanding of a bottle of bourbon.  So,\nwhen you open this bottle, and you try the product, and you get all\nthe nose sensations and the aromas and then the taste, trying to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4020.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"build\nan understanding of how all that's being created is important.  Second\npart of the challenge is \"All right, so, how do you then manipulate\nthat naturally?\" Because, obviously, we're not going to be dropping\nbits of lemon into the product to try and tweak it.  You're going to\nhave to do this based on your understanding of the naturally occurring\nprocesses that go on with bourbon.  So, it is a lot like looking for\nthe Holy Grail.  This is no picnic project, but I think it's a very\nworthwhile adventure.  And of course, who's to say what the perfect,\nor the best bourbon ever made is? I would imagine that's in the eye\nof the beholder.  So, um, we will see; that's a little bit of the\nproject we're on.  The experiments that we've been doing is an attempt\nto really build a deeper understand of just how a bottle of bourbon is\ncreated, what variables can you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4080.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"play with to move that taste profile\naround, all in the confines of mother nature.\n \nTROLAND: Indeed, you point to the number of bottles here from the\nBuffalo Trace experimental collection.  What--what's the philosophy\nbehind that, apart from trying different experiments with bourbon--the\ndistribution necessarily is very, very limited.  It must have a very\nsmall effect upon your overall sales, if not negligible.  What's, what's\nthe guiding philosophy of putting this out as a commercial product?\n \nBROWN: Well, the concept behind the experiments is to build this\nunderstanding.  So, we've never gone into this as a commercial venture\nat all.  As you point out, it's, it's negligible in its impact on\nthe company.  But we want to do the experiments so that we can help\nbuild this understanding of what goes into making a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4140.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"particular bottle\nof bourbon.  And having had the experiments mature, although there\nare limited quantities, we have wanted to make them available to the\npublic, as opposed to pouring them down the drain, which would seem to\nme to be a, a tragedy.  So, we live in a difficult world where there\nisn't enough to go around, and we get upset people that can't find the\nproduct from time to time.  But we think it's worth it, because some of\nthe results we're getting from some of the experiments are really pretty\ngood, pretty interesting.  It would be a shame not to share those.  And\nthat's why we put them in half bottles, so that there's at least twice\nas much to go around.  And we have 1492 ongoing experiments right now.\n \nTROLAND: The same year you were born, you said earlier.\n \nBROWN: The same year I was born, yes.  (laughs)\n \n \n[Pause in recording.]\n \n \nTROLAND: Okay.  As you look ahead at the bourbon industry and also\nlook at what's happened in the last decade or two, it seems to me that\nproduct innovation has been certainly a strong factor in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4200.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"driving sales\nand interest in bourbon.  And certainly, Buffalo Trace has been a\nleader in that field.  If you consider the bourbon industry in general,\nsome distilleries have emphasized the idea of product innovation.  Many\nproducts, many new products, other distilleries have concentrated on\neither a rather small number of products, or even just only one.  What\ndo you see as the pros and cons of those two strategies?\n \nBROWN: Well, I think Jack Daniels and Wild Turkey have done wonderful\njobs, as has Maker's Mark of taking one product, focusing on that one\nproduct, and building it into an internationally recognized brand.  Our\nstrategy has been completely different.  Our strategy has been much\nmore about presenting to the consumer an array of different ages of\nproduct, and different recipes of product. So, we've presented ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4260.0,4320.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"variety\nto the consumer.  And I think our concept--the concept behind that\nis that you can move the taste profile of bourbon around and whiskey\naround.  So, if you take a rye whiskey, which is really kin more to\na bottle of zinfandel in the wine world--powerful, big, spicy type\nproduct--and said to consumers, \"Well, you may be drinking cognac, or\nyou may be drinking some other type of spirit, but here is something in\nthe American spirit collection area that you can try, adopt, and enjoy.\nSimilarly, the other end of the spectrum you have wheated bourbons,\nwhich is much more like merlots of the wine world--which appeal to\ncertain consumers who do not like the complexity of bourbon's cabernet\nsauvignon, which is the rye recipe type bourbons.  And so, much as the\nwine makers have diversified their presentation of different types of\nwines, we felt ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4320.0,4380.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it was more important to offer consumers an array of\nbourbons.  And one of the stereotypes I think we've found in consumers'\nminds, is that all bourbon tastes alike.  And that would be a shame,\nand it's not really correct and accurate.  And I think our effort has\nbeen more to try and get consumers to understand that there are in fact\na wide array of products.  And then, if you've changed the recipes, but\nthen also, what difference does the impact of age make? And clearly,\nthere's a big difference between a four year old and an eight year old\nwith its impeccable balance, to an eighteen year old, with its heavy\nwood flavors--which changes the consumption time of day.  And so,\nwe've really been all about age and recipe and trying to attract new\nconsumers to the category that would never of previously considered\nbourbon, because they thought it was a rather one-dimensional category.\nAnd we've been able to do that, because of our reservoir ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4380.0,4440.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of recipes\nand our capacity to age, or our willingness to age product for up\nto twenty-three years.  And all the attendant forecasting problems\nand business risks of doing that.  So, it's just a--I think really\na preference of how you think about the consumer.  Clearly, or\napparently, neither approach has been wrong.  It's just a different,\ndifferent way of tackling it.\n \nTROLAND: If I were to say to you that Buffalo Trace could be imagined as\nthe Glenmorangie of the bourbon world, how would you react to that?\n \nBROWN: Well, I would say that we were far too humble or modest to, to\nsay that.  I think that we get up in the morning looking to be better\nthan we were yesterday and looking to be very good, and looking for\nperfection in what, what we do.  I've always found it a little bit\ndangerous to--rather like standing on a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4440.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ladder--looking down is not\nnecessarily the best approach you want to continue to look up and\nthat's a little bit of our culture.  So, I think we're flattered that,\nthat we've been recognized.  But our real goal is to turn Buffalo Trace\ninto a complete Mecca, if you will, for a whiskey enthusiast, and not\nrest until we've, until we've done that, that's really the goal.  And I\ndon't know if we'll ever get there completely and utterly.  But that's\nthat forward progress that we're interested in making.\n \nTROLAND: Curious that you use the analogy \"Mecca\" since I presume in the\nreal Mecca, Buffalo Trace will never be sold.\n \nBROWN: Correct.\n \nTROLAND: What do you see as the role of the new acquisition by Sazerac\nCompany of the Barton Brands--what is that role in the company as a\nwhole? How will that change your future ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4500.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"directions?\n \nBROWN: Well, um, for Sazerac, we have had this ongoing development of\nour business.  And there is a--we have a strategic plan that we've had\nfor the eleven years that I've been back.  And--we've identified very\nspecific business objectives that we wanted to achieve.  There's an\nirony to the, to the acquisition, which is that--that the acquisition\nis actually a, an amalgamation of several different companies, all\nof which we tried to buy as individual companies in the eighties.\nSo, every single one of the companies that's been rolled up under\nConstellation Spirits, we had actually attempted to buy in the\neighties, and so, there was a slight touch of irony that we just had\nto wait, and then we were able to take the entire portfolio at, at\none time. But for Sazerac, it's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4560.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"obviously a significant acquisition,\nand we're delighted with what it brings us and where it positions\nus.  It substantially achieves our strategic plan, and now allows us\nto start thinking about the rest of the strategic plan, which is our\ninternational business and how that develops.  And the drinks industry\nis an, is an interesting industry, because it's really come to be\ndominated by foreign companies.  And there are a variety of reasons\nfor that; for the British, and the French clearly have a head start\non the American companies.  And we're fairly competitive and like many\nAmericans in many different walks, we hate to be second, and so--I\nthink it's, it's part of our nature to want to build a company that can\ncompete with some of the foreign competitors.\n \nTROLAND: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4620.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, there are a number of brands produced at this distillery\nnamed for people who previously worked there.  There is the Blanton\nlabel, there's of course the W.L.  Weller, Thomas Handy and George T.\nStagg--a half a century or so from now, hopefully, they'll be one named\nafter you.\n \nBROWN: Lord, I hope not.\n \nTROLAND: What should it be called?\n \nBROWN: (laughs) I hope not, and I've already issued--some wag suggested\nbuilding a statue at some point.  And I would just as soon I am--my\nwhole role and goal is the, is the business entity, the distillery\nBuffalo Trace.  And so, if I'm lost in the annals of history, that's\njust fine with me.  So, I hope that no bright spot decides to come\nout with a whiskey--and in any event, the trademark is taken, because\nHeaven Hill has a brand called, a brand called J.T.S.  Brown.  Which is\nironic, because my wife ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4680.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is Jane, as in 'J', my sons are Thomas and Sam.\nSo, I suppose if we were going to go and acquire something from Heaven\nHill maybe we should go buy J.T.S Brown.  But I don't foresee all\nthat happening down the road.  Particularly as I shall leave specific\ninstructions that it, that it not happen.\n \nTROLAND: So, that would rule out, let's say, Old Brown.\n \nBROWN: Yes.\n \nTROLAND: I suppose Maker's Mark has already been taken.\n \nBROWN: Correct.\n \nTROLAND: Wouldn't work.\n \nBROWN: So, there's lots of, there's lots of reasons to be optimistic\nthat in fact I'll be able to disappear quietly into the mist.\n \nTROLAND: I'm sure fifty years from now--although you may have\ndisappeared by that time, you won't be forgotten.  If someone were\nwriting a history of the Buffalo Trace distillery at that time, what\nmight you like to see in that book regarding yourself?\n \nBROWN: Well, I think--in a retrospective sense, it would ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4740.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be nice to have\nthis period be thought of as the period of renovation and restoration.\nWith particular attention to the team of people that made it possible.\nSo, whether you're looking at Ronnie and Leonard, or whether you're\nlooking Harlen Wheatley, or you're looking at the continued involvement\nof Elmer T. Lee, and quite frankly, the involvement of the Johnson\nfamily, and the involvement of all the other people that have come\nto the Trace to help make it work.  I think as people would look back\nand say, you know, \"This was the period when a group of people came\ntogether and really put Humpty Dumpty back together again, and made\nit--gave us, this generation, the opportunity to take it another step\nfurther.\" And I think--to the extent that Buffalo Trace becomes as well\nknown around the world as is Johnny Walker, then I think we would have\nreally achieved something.  And that won't happen in my lifetime, but\nI hope successive generations are able to spring board off whatever\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4800.0,4860.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"momentum we're going to give them, much like a relay race. And\nactually achieve that goal.  Because it's--it's imminently doable.\n \nTROLAND: But no statues?\n \nBROWN: But no statues.\n \nTROLAND: What's your favorite bourbon?\n \nBROWN: Buffalo Trace.\n \nTROLAND: Apart from bourbon, what else in the way of um, distilled\nspirits, or, or other alcoholic beverages do you enjoy?\n \nBROWN: It's a bit like working in a cookie factory, so my actual intake\nof alcohol is fairly low.  I do enjoy Buffalo Trace, and I drink a\nlittle bit of wine and the occasional beer.  But that's about, that's\nabout it.\n \nTROLAND: Anything else that you'd like to say that I haven't already\nasked you about?\n \nBROWN: No, I don't, I don't think so.  I think we've covered off on an\nawful lot of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4860.0,4920.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/transcript/8/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"topics it seems in a short period of time.\n \nTROLAND: Mark Brown, thank you very much.\n \nBROWN: Thank you.\n \n \n[End of interview.]\n \n \n \n ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=4920.0,4980.0"}]},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["2009oh170_bik011_brown_ohm.xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Childhood in his parents' pub","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=0.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Brown is introduced. He describes his childhood growing up in his parents' pub outside of London, England. He talks about the types of drinks they sold, their usual customers, and his own responsibilities at the bar.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=0.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My name is Tom Troland.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=0.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bars (Drinking establishments)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Childhood","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Consumers.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"England--Social life and customs","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family-owned business enterprises.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8#t=0.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/8/file/8/index/8/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"Real ale\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"Under the bar\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"America","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Beer","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon whiskey","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Breweries","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brown-Forman Corporation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cellars","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Craft beers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Customers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Duties","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"English beers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fathers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hampton Court Palace","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jobs","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"London (England)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Memories","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mistresses","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mothers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Parents","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Police 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