{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/tb0xp6v94p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Mike  Veach, February 3, 2011"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/002/original/1b9c652bf856b30cc9684b8a547e8758.png?1549330641","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Mike  Veach (Interviewee)","Thomas  Troland (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2011-02-03 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["2011oh018_bik018 (cms record id)","2011OH018 BIK 018 (accession number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Buffalo Trace Oral History Project (BIK003) (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Mike Veach is Associate Curator of Special Collections at the Filson Historical Society in Louisville, Kentucky. In this interview he discusses some of the materials collected by the Filson Historical Society that demonstrate the history of the bourbon industry in Kentucky. He talks about the early days of farmer distillers, through the Whiskey Rebellion, the War of 1812, World War I, Prohibition, and the Pure Food and Drug Act, to the creation of what we know of as bourbon today. He talks about when distillers may have begun using charred oak barrels to age whiskey, when the product began to be called bourbon, and technological advancements in distilling. He talks about the history of several distilleries, including the Old Fashioned Copper Distillery, once owned by E. H. Taylor, now known as the Buffalo Trace Distillery. He talks about Kentucky as the home of bourbon and why bourbon became the dominant American whiskey. (summary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Filson Historical Society","Quality of products.","Prohibition.","Sales promotion."]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Whiskey (local term)","Veach, Mike (local term)","Veach, Mike--Interviews (local term)","Whiskey industry--Kentucky (local term)","Alcohol--Taxation--United States. (local term)","Alcohol--Law and legislation (local term)","Distillation. (local term)","Distilleries--Kentucky (local term)","Distillers. (local term)","Whiskey industry--Kentucky--History. (local term)","Buffalo Trace Distillery. (local term)","Economic conditions. (local term)","Bourbon whiskey (local term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries.","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections and Digital Programs, University of Kentucky Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["00048054 (2011oh018_bik018_veach_ohm.xml)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Duration"]},"value":{"en":["02:00:31"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Mike Veach is Associate Curator of Special Collections at the Filson Historical Society in Louisville, Kentucky. In this interview he discusses some of the materials collected by the Filson Historical Society that demonstrate the history of the bourbon industry in Kentucky. He talks about the early days of farmer distillers, through the Whiskey Rebellion, the War of 1812, World War I, Prohibition, and the Pure Food and Drug Act, to the creation of what we know of as bourbon today. He talks about when distillers may have begun using charred oak barrels to age whiskey, when the product began to be called bourbon, and technological advancements in distilling. He talks about the history of several distilleries, including the Old Fashioned Copper Distillery, once owned by E. H. Taylor, now known as the Buffalo Trace Distillery. He talks about Kentucky as the home of bourbon and why bourbon became the dominant American whiskey."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries.","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections and Digital Programs, University of Kentucky Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/002/original/1b9c652bf856b30cc9684b8a547e8758.png?1549330641","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/000/012/small/open-uri20190204-2161-1q4w9du?1549331330","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 2011oh018_bik018_veach_acc003 from Nunn Center for Oral History on Vimeo"]},"duration":7231.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/000/012/small/open-uri20190204-2161-1q4w9du?1549331330","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://player.vimeo.com/video/253469478","type":"Video","format":"video/vimeo","duration":7231.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["2011oh018_bik018_veach_ohm.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TROLAND:  My name is Tom Troland and we are interviewing today Mike Veach,\nwho is associate curator of special collections here at the Filson Historical\nSociety in Louisville, Kentucky.  The date is February 3rd, 2011.  This is part\nof the Buffalo Trace Oral History Project and we are indeed, uh, here at the\nFilson Historical Society in Louisville.  First of all, Mike, thanks so much for\nparticipating in this, in this, uh, project.  Let me begin with asking you a\nvery general question.  Tell us something about yourself.\n\nVEACH:  Well, that's a loaded question. Uh, I guess the best way to start this\nis a little--one of the questions I always get is how do you get i--to be a\nbourbon historian.  And I always tell people that I'm the luckiest, uh, history\nstudent to ever come out of the history department at the University of\nLouisville.  I was working on my master's degree in, uh, actually medieval\nhistory with a secondary field in public history, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and United Distillers called\nthe university and said, uh, \"We're going to be putting together an archives out\nat the Stitzel-Weller Distillery and, uh, we're looking for somebody to--could\ncatalog some items and such.  It'd be six weeks during the summer.\" Uh, nine\ndollars an hour, thirty-five hours a week in 1991 as a graduate student, uh, who\nhadn't made money being a full-time student, that was, uh, very good.  So I went\nand started putting--cataloging these materials.  And they kept bringing more\nand more materials in. Uh, six weeks turned into eight weeks.  I had to go back\nand finish my class work at, uh, University of Louisville.  They told me to keep\nworking on it for, um, you know ten, twenty hours a week, as long as I could.\nUh, you know whatever amount of time I could afford to spend on it.  And, uh,\nafter I finished my class work they hired me full-time. So, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"uh, that's how I\ngot into this. Uh, their archives at, uh, the United Distillers was, uh, the\nlargest archive, uh, uh, in the distilling industry.  It still is.  It's just\ninactive at this point.  But it's probably got about, um, twenty thousand cubic\nfeet worth of documents.  So, so that's how I got into this.\n\nTROLAND:  Where are you from originally?\n\nVEACH:  I'm originally from here in Jefferson County in the southwest part of\nthe county.  So I grew up down just south of Shively where all the distilleries\nwere. Uh, as any Kentuckian I knew about bourbon.  But, uh, not, uh, to the\nextent that I, uh, would come to, uh, learn at United Distillers. Uh, United\nDistillers, I got to learn not only the history but also got to learn quite a\nbit about the tasting side of it. One of the first ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"projects that, uh, I was\ninvolved in was that, uh, um, all of the employees had to g--uh, had a chance to\ngo to the tasting lab.  They had a, uh, separate trailer set up because they\nwere, uh, sampling every barrel in their warehouses.  And you know every day you\nwould go in there and there'd be like six whiskeys that you would sample and\nwrite your opinions, because they were looking for good and bad whiskeys.  And\nso I got to learn from, uh, some real quality tasting people what to look for in\ngood whiskey and bad whiskey.\n\nTROLAND:  Were you able to sample each barrel in their warehouse?\n\nVEACH:  Well, they were about halfway through the project when I got there in\n'91.  So, uh, uh, I won't say that I sampled, uh, uh, you know every barrel.  I\nwon't even say I sampled half, because there were probably some days that for\nvarious reasons I didn't get to go to the tasting lab. But ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can say that I\nsampled quite a few barrels in the--in about two years that the--before the\nproject came to an end.\n\nTROLAND:  So you, uh, hold a master's degree in history from the University of Louisville?\n\nVEACH:  Yes.  I have a master's degree in history. Uh, like I said medieval\nhistory was my primary field with public history as my secondary field.  I did\ntwo years of internship at the Filson Historical Society, uh, while I was\nworking on that.  And, uh, uh, when United Distillers sold all of their bourbon\nbrands and, um, closed the archives Jim Holmberg knew I was available and he\nhired me here at the Filson in 1997.  And I've been here since.\n\nTROLAND:  A question about those archives that you mentioned earlier.  Where are\nthey?  And are they accessible to historians?\n\nVEACH: They are still right where I left them. Um, at the, uh, bottling house,  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nuh, storage area.  Used to be the old label storage room at the Stitzel-Weller\nDistillery. Uh, I was in there just a couple weeks ago.  Um, we had a, a person\nthat was a descendant of, uh, of Dant, J. W. Dant.  And he was interested in\nfinding some, uh, materials on the Dant family.  And I had met him before and\ntalked to him and he got permission to go into the, uh, Stitzel-Weller archives\nto look for some things as long as, uh, I was there with him.  So I actually\nwent in there and spent a couple of hours with him going through there and\nshowing him some things and picking out things that he was interested in.  And\nthey're going to copy them for him and, uh, send them to him.\n\nSo they are sort of accessible but not really. Uh, it's not something that\nanybody can just walk up and say, \"I want to see the archives,\" and see.  But if\nthey feel that--you know still it's a private archives.  You know they have the\nintellectual control over it. And, uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know like even the guy I helped the\nother day, he wasn't able to get copies that day.  They had to go through\napprovals and such, uh, before he could--they could make the copies and send it\nto him.  But, uh, there are, you know, people that can get in there.  And\nusually when they have somebody that wants to get in there they call me still.\n\nTROLAND:  Who owns those archives today?\n\nVEACH:  It's the same company.  It's, uh, Diageo now.  It was United Distillers\nwhen I was there.  But in about '97, '98, uh, United Distillers and--was it Moet\nHennessy--not Henderson but Hennessy--uh, merged to, uh, become Diageo.  And\nthat's the company.\n\nTROLAND:  Can you tell me just briefly a bit about the history and mission of\nthe Filson Historical Society?\n\nVEACH: Well, our missions actually changed about, uh, ten years ago or so. Uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\noriginally we were here to preserve, uh, collect and make accessible to the\npublic, uh, documents dealing with the history of Kentucky. Uh, about ten years\nago or so we actually expanded that to Kentucky and the Ohio River Valley.  The\nreason we did this is we found there was a lot of connections between Kentucky\nand just across the river. Uh, we were--particularly like in the Civil War--we\nwere getting a lot of letters and things from, uh, people that served in\nKentucky that were members of Indiana or Illinois or Ohio regiments or even\nMichigan regiments and such.  So we expanded our, uh, um mission to include the\nOhio River Valley and Kentucky.  But it's still pretty much the same.  We, uh,\nare a working archive and a, uh, library.  We're not a lending library but we do\nhave a library of, uh, books on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kentucky and the Ohio River Valley and rare\npamphlets and maps and original letters and just--photographs.  Just about\nanything you could think of.\n\nTROLAND:  What do you do today as part of your duties here at the Filson, uh, to\nresearch the history of bourbon?\n\nVEACH:  Well, my duties here at the Filson are, uh, not really bourbon-related.\nI, I, but, uh, what I do at the Filson is I'm a cataloger. Uh, if we get\ncollections in I catalog them and, uh, um, get them into the system.  Plus I am,\nuh, responsible for things such as monitoring, uh, uh, researchers when they\ncome in and other things dealing with the handling of the documents to make sure\nthat they're handled safely and nobody's stealing anything.  Things like that.\nBut ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with that said if something comes in with distilling interest, uh, you can\npretty much guarantee that it's going to end up on my desk. Uh, I do use, uh,\nbourbon history quite a bit here at the Filson doing events and things like\nthat. Uh, we do the Filson Bourbon Academy, uh, which is four weeks of training.\nUh, we really aim it at bartenders.  But it's open to anybody. Uh, Filson\nmembers or anybody else that wants to, uh, to take it.\n\nBut we talk, uh--t's split between talking about history and talking about\ntasting of bourbon and such.  You know that's one of the events I do.  It helps\nraise money for the Filson.  And I also do a lot of other, uh, uh,\nbourbon-related talks and, uh, uh, tastings and things here at the Filson. Uh,\nsome of them free, some of them are fundraisers.\n\nTROLAND: Outside perhaps of your official duties here ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at the Filson what\nactivities do you pursue that are related to learning more about bourbon history?\n\nVEACH:  Well, I am, uh, working on a book for the University, uh, Press of\nKentucky right now.  So that's, uh, the big thing.  And, uh, I also am a, uh,\nmajor contributor to the bourbonenthusiast.com, uh, bourbon website.  And, uh,\nyou know, other than going to a lot of bourbon events, uh, I actually help, uh,\nuh, I actually help out, uh, the Louisville tourism people, uh, with their Urban\nBourbon Trail training.  Um, they, uh, are sponsoring the Urban Bourbon Trail\nwhich is nine, ten bars, it, uh, it varies depending on, uh, conditions and how\nwell the, uh, bars do and, and such. But, uh, um, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there are bars that have over\nfifty bourbons on their, uh, back bar and, uh, specialize in bourbon-related\nfoods and things like that.  I help train the staff in, uh, bourbon history and\nthings like that.\n\nUm, I do a lot of, uh, charity bourbon tastings.  Uh, I get calls and e-mails\nfrom people all over the place wanting me to do, uh, donate a bourbon tasting to\ntheir fundraising auctions.  And what I'll do is I'll, uh, uh, donate an auction\nfor six people where I will take, uh, five bourbons and go to their house and\nlead them through a tasting, and then when we get through, they get to keep\nwhat's left in the bottles for their bar. Uh, I've raised a lot of money for\ndifferent charities. Uh, everything from the Farnsley-Moremen House to, uh, uh,\nthe Girl Scou--or the Boy Scouts--not Girl Scouts, but the Boy Scouts. Um, um, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthe Gold Rush auction that the Fort Knox soldiers have every year.  I've done\nthat for the last two years, which is a lot of fun because it's usually held in\none of the historic houses on the, uh, base there at Fort Knox.  Things like\nthat are mainly what I do for outside of the Filson.\n\nTROLAND:  Interesting concept, a bourbon tasting for the Boy Scouts.\n\nVEACH:  Yeah.  Well, actually just got doing one for a church here not too long\nago too. Uh, uh, Jim Holmberg's church, uh, my boss, uh, was trying to, uh,\nretire some debt.  So they were having an auction and I donated a bourbon\ntasting to their church.  And, uh, uh, did it about three weeks ago.  And it was\na lot of fun.\n\nTROLAND:  Does the Filson have in its collections any important documents\nrelated to the history of bourbon?\n\nVEACH: They have a lot of very nice things here at the Filson, uh, related ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to\nbourbon.  Probably the most significant thing that they have is that the\nearliest reference I have found to charring barrels is in the, uh, collection\nhere.  The, uh, uh, Corlis-Respess Family Papers. Uh, John Corlis was a, uh,\nmerchant in Providence, Rhode Island, owned a couple ships, and a, uh, merchant\nbusiness as well as a, uh, gin distillery up in Providence, Rhode Island in the\nearly 1800s, uh, the early 1810s to be more specific.  He had a couple ships\nthat got seized, uh, by the Spanish off the coast of South America.  Ended up\ngetting into some financial trouble up there.  He sold everything he had and\ncame to, uh, Kentucky and bought a farm and a distillery in Bourbon County, Kentucky.\n\nSo in 1826 he's got a--there's a letter in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"collection from a Lexington\ngrocer.  A grocer at that time would be what we consider a wholesaler, uh,\nsomebody that would buy bulk whiskey and ham and other produces and ship it out\nto what we would consider grocery stores today, you know people's stores where\nit could be better distributed to individuals.  But this guy writes and says, \"I\nreally like your whiskey,\" and says, \"We'll take another hundred barrels, uh,\nten at a time until you fill it out.  But I've been told that if you will burn\nor char the inside of the barrel as little as a sixteenth of an inch, it will\ngreatly improve the product.\"  This is 1826. Uh, this is a Lexington grocery\nstore telling a Bourbon County distiller how to make bourbon.\n\nSo that's probably the most significant thing that we have here.  But with that\nsaid we have a lot of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really nice things as well. We have, uh, uh, several\nearly, uh, licenses from the Whiskey Rebellion period for people that were, uh,\nmaking whiskey.  We have licenses from the 1812 tax. Uh, if you're not familiar\nwith the taxes, the way, uh--what happened was that you had the initial tax in\n1792, and, uh, or actually 1794, excuse me, but, uh, the tax that caused the\nWhiskey Rebellion.  Well, that tax was actually, uh, repealed in 1802 by Thomas\nJefferson.  He was elected president with the, uh, promise that he was going to\nbalance the budget and repeal the whiskey tax.  And believe it or not, we had a\npresident that kept his word.  He, uh, balanced the budget and repealed the\nwhiskey tax in 1802.\n\nWell, the tax came back in 1812 to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"pay for the second war of independence, uh,\nthe War of 1812.  And it was around till 1817 when it was repealed again.  And\nwhat's interesting about, uh, that tax period is is we have several licenses up\nthere of, uh, for distilleries, but they're all licensed to women--or several of\nthem.  Not all of them but several of them are licensed to women.  And if you\nknow your history of the War of 1812, the main reason for that is that Kentucky\nwas one of the largest, uh, uh, sources of manpower for the troops in the War of\n1812.  The men were away, the women were there running the distilleries.  So we\nhave those. Uh, um, other than that we start getting into the, uh, post Civil\nWar period. Uh, we have a very significant collection in the, uh, Taylor-Hay\nFamily Papers. Uh, the Taylor is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Colonel E. H. Taylor, Jr. Uh, he--we have more\nrecords--early records of the old OFC Distillery than any other, uh, uh,\ninstitution at this point, uh, because we basically have all of his old, uh,\nledger books and, uh, uh, uh, letter books, letterpress books. Uh, if you're not\nfamiliar with what a letterpress book was it was a, uh, early form of xerox. Uh,\nbasically you would take your document, you would get it damp, and you would\npress i--uh, take it and lay it in this book that was a real thin onionskin type\npaper.  You would lay your letter in there, and then you would take a, uh, uh,\nbig press, and you would press the, the closed book down on that letter.  Then\nwhen you released it that ink would bleed through.  So you had a copy of the letter.\n\nAnd, uh, so we have basically copies of all the correspondence that E. H. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Taylor\nCompany did as the OFC Distillery and then later into, uh, uh, when he went\nindependent, uh, to the, uh, uh, went to the, uh, Old Taylor Distillery and all\nthat. Uh, one of the really nice letters in the, uh, in the Old Taylor part is\nfrom 1918, um, talking about the shortage of manpower during World War I, not\nbecause of the war so much, but because of the flu epidemic.  You know a lot of\nhis ladies on the bottling line were dying in the flu epidemic.  So that's\nreally nice.  He has a lot of great correspondence and scrapbooks and other\nmaterials dealing with, uh, uh, the Bottled-in-Bond Act which was something that\nwas, uh, uh, very important to the state of Kentucky.  And he also has a lot of\ninformation and such on g--uh, passing of the, uh, Pure Food and Drug Act and\nthe 'what is whiskey' ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"question that followed immediately.\n\nYou know in 1906 in order to have pure food and drugs you had to know 'what is\nwhiskey?'  And there was a big controversy, because, uh, all through the last\npart of the nineteenth century you had straight whiskey distillers like E. H.\nTaylor and you had what they called rectifiers.  Rectifiers usually didn't even\nown a distillery.  They were buying bulk whiskey from straight whiskey\ndistillers and they were, uh, rectifying it to make their flavor profile.  A lot\nof the rectifiers were very, uh, respectable people that were doing things\nsimply like taking, uh, barrels from this distillery and barrels from this other\ndistillery, you know Distillery A and Distillery B, and marrying them together\nto come up with the flavor profile they liked.  Others were making things that\nwe would call a blended whiskey today.  They were taking straight whiskey and\nadding it to neutral spirits to lighten it up. Then you even had, uh, uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the\nreal disreputable ones that were taking things and making whiskey, um, out of\neverything. Uh, I've actually seen a recipe that called for, uh, uh, add a\nlittle sulfuric acid to it to give it burn.  And, uh, use, uh, the chaw of, uh,\nspittings from tobacco, chewing tobacco, to give it color. Uh, there was a whole\ngamut of it.\n\nBut anyway you had these two different types of people making whiskey.  So the\nquestion is 'what is whiskey?'  Was it a just, just straight whiskey or was\nit--this other stuff whiskey as well?  Well, under Teddy Roosevelt, uh, their\nchemist, a guy named Wiley, uh, he was the keef--chief chemist for the, uh,\nagricultural department.  And, uh, he said only straight whiskey was whiskey.\nEverything else had to be labeled imitation. Needless ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say that made a lot of\npeople upset.  And to make matters worse not only was it upsetting all these\nrectifiers in the United States, at that time pretty much all of Scotch whisky\nand Canadian whisky coming into the United States would have had to have been\ncalled imitation whiskey, because none of it was straight, it was blended whiskeys.\n\nSo anyway, uh, there was a long legal battle. Uh, President Roosevelt leaves\noffice, President Taft becomes president.  And President Taft is a, uh,\npresident who comes from a legal background.  His father was a Supreme Court\njudge in th--in Ohio.  Um, Taft is the only, uh, president that I know of that\ngoes on to become Chief Justice of the American Supreme Court.  So he's got a\nvery legal mind, and he realizes that since this is all going to be regulated\nthrough ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the departments of the presidency, the final decision really was his.\n\nSo he spends the first nine months of his office listening to both sides of the\nargument.  And he comes up with the, uh, Taft Decision on December 27th, 1909.\nAnd I always tell people it had to be the right decision, because nobody liked\nit.  Um, the rectifiers thought he went too far.  The straight whiskey people\ndidn't think he went far enough.  But basically he set the regulations, uh, for\nwhat we know as straight whiskey, blended whiskey, and imitation whiskey today.\nAnd this type of material is all in the Taylor-Hay Papers.\n\nWe also got, uh, some significant collections. Uh, we have the Brown-Walker\nfamily which is, uh, uh, from J. T. S. Brown papers, which has some, uh,\ndistilling ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"materials in it. Uh, we have Ed Foote who was master distiller at,\nuh, um, uh, Stitzel-Weller up until they closed it in 1992.  Then he goes on to\nbecome master distiller at Bernheim.  We have his papers.  And that includes\nhis, uh, daily logs from the time he started in 1984 until, uh, the distillery\nwas closed in 1992.  So we have a lot of very significant distilling papers here\nat the Filson.\n\nTROLAND:  Let's take a look at some bourbon history, and in particular perhaps\nthe significance of the Kentucky River to the development of bourbon in general\nperhaps but also to the distillery which is today known as Buffalo Trace.  How\ndoes the river connect with bourbon and with that distillery?\n\nVEACH:  Well, it's interesting.  In the nineteenth century, uh, E. H. Taylor\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"said that the best whiskey all was made in the Kentucky River Valley. Uh, and\nthe early whiskeys that made Kentucky famous do seem to come from that general\narea, as much as Bardstown wants to talk about being the bourbon capital of the\nworld and all that today.  They do have a very rich distilling history in\nBardstown and Nelson County.  But the early, uh, whiskeys of note really did\ncome from the Kentucky River area.\n\nUh, of course the most famous was Old Crow.  You know that's where James Crow\nsettled and went to work for Oscar Pepper.  Now with that said, as a historian\nlooking back at it, I think that the reason that was so wasn't so much the\nKentucky River, it was because James Crow was there.  And James Crow's whiskey\nbecame the whiskey that everybody judged as good whiskey.  And one of the things\nthat made James ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Crow so, uh, important was was that not only did he apply\nscientific methods to the distilling, uh, distilling process, he wrote it down.\nAnd by writing it down other distillers in that area were able to learn what he\nwas doing.  And a lot of the people that he trained ended up working for other\ndistilleries in that area.  Thus, uh, the whiskey that he made became very\npopular.  And there were a lot of people around there that were capable of\nmaking the same type of whiskey.  And I think it would have just kind of\nradiated out through Kentucky from there, as his methods and such started\ngetting, uh, more and more popular.\n\nTROLAND:  Did the Kentucky River play any role in commerce that somehow\nencouraged the bourbon trade?\n\nVEACH: The ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"river systems in Kentucky are very important to, uh, uh, to the\ncommerce of bourbon. Uh, the Kentucky River leads into the Ohio River.  The Ohio\nRiver leads to the Mississippi.  And the Mississippi leads to New Orleans.  And\nfrom very early times that was the natural trade route out of Kentucky.  You got\nto remember in the 1700s and the early 1800s there were no railroads.  There\nweren't even steamships. Uh, it was much easier to get goods down the river than\nit was across the mountains into, uh, into what was the United States at that\ntime.  So yes, the Kentucky River do--does play an important part in the trade\nand, uh, um, and commerce of bourbon whiskey.\n\nTROLAND:  Does the river play any role in aging of Kentucky whiskey?  That is to\nsay does proximity to the river have any ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"effect on aging?\n\nVEACH:  I don't think so. Uh, it's something I haven't really thought about.\nBut, uh, I would not think so because Kentucky summers are pretty humid all\nacross.  I don't think the humidity difference is that much greater near the\nriver than it is twenty miles away from it.  And Kentucky is such a, uh,\nwell-watered area that, uh, I don't see the, the, the presence of a river being\nsignificantly different in the aging process.  You got to remember the aging\nprocess takes place over several years.  And you're going to have lots of rain\nand dry periods, and et cetera.  It's all going to average out in the long run I\nbelieve.  So no, I don't think the, the river itself plays an important part in\nthe, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the aging process.\n\nUh, uh, I'm not a scientist.  I'm a historian. Uh, so I will qualify th--myself\nby saying that.  You know if someone can show me something that says it does I'd\nbe happy to look at it.  But, uh, nothing that I've ever seen would indicate so.\n\nTROLAND:  Let's take a look at the early history of the Buffalo Trace site.\nWhat do we know about the very earliest history of that site going back to the\ntime when the first Europeans arrived?\n\nVEACH:  Well, I'm not terribly familiar with the site before, uh, E. H. Taylor\nactually got ahold of it.  He bought a, uh, distillery there that was owned by,\nuh, I think it was Jacob Swigert.  Swigert.  S-W-I-G-E-R-T. Uh, which, uh, ends\nup marrying into the f--you know they marry into the family, the Swigert family.\nBut he bought an existing distillery there. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, but it wasn't much. And E. H.\nTaylor is the one that took a--basically a farm distillery from the way I\nunderstand it and turned it into, uh, a modern distillery.\n\nBut with that said I need to, uh, probably back up a little bit and talk a\nlittle bit about Taylor himself.  Taylor, uh, was born in the, uh, Jackson\nPurchase area of Kentucky, the far west, right on the banks of the Mississippi.\nUm, his father died when he was very young.  He ended up, uh, um, spending some\ntime with his, uh, great-uncle Zachary Taylor down in New Orleans before coming\nto Lexington to be raised by his uncle Edmund H. Taylor.  And of course he was\nEdmund H. Taylor.  That's when he added the junior to his name to distinguish\nbetween the two of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them. But he had so much respect for his uncle that even\nafter his uncle died he kept the junior as a, uh, sign of respect for his uncle.\n\nHis uncle basically educated him. Uh, sent him to, uh, uh, the best schools in\nthe Lexington area. Uh, his uncle was in the banking business and trained, uh,\nuh, E. H. Taylor, Jr. as, as a banker as well.  He actually went into the\nbanking business in the 1850s.  The bank that he was a partner in failed. Uh, he\ngets involved, uh, in several different mercantile businesses during the, uh,\nCivil War.  But just after the Civil War he becomes the company in Gaines, Berry\nand Company who bought the Old Crow brand.\n\nSo what Taylor's first job as a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"partner in that firm was was that he went to\nEurope.  And he studied distilling methods in Ireland, Scotland, France,\nGermany, and came back to the United States and helped them build the new\nHermitage Distillery where Old Crow was going to be made.  And he used this\nknowledge that he learned about distilling methods over there to create that distillery.\n\nWell, when he went independent and bought the Swigert Distillery and, uh,\nstarted building the OFC Distillery which was Old Fashioned Copper Distillery,\nuh, he used these same ideas to create it.  But I think he took it one step\nfurther.  And this is the genius of the man.  I have a lot of respect for E. H.\nTaylor, Jr. He decided if he made his distillery look good, become ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a showplace,\nthen he could bring prospective customers to the distillery and show them how\nthe whiskey was being made and impress them with you know, uh, how nice\neverything looked.  And, uh, he made his distillery, you know, the height of\nmodern efficiency and cleanliness and, uh, and style.\n\nOne of the letters in his, uh, letterpress book, he talks. Uh, he's sending a\nletter to his coppersmith saying, \"I really like the dona tub at W. L. Weller\nand Sons in Louisville, Kentucky. I want you to stop by there and look at it\nbecause I want one like it.\"  So he was very impressed with the idea of making\nthings look good.  And, uh, that carried on over into his, uh, branding.\n\nWhen he made OFC whiskey one of the first things he did ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was to create a\nbarrelhead trademark with a huge OFC on it with his signature.  And not only\nthat, he made the barrels when he--before, uh, he shipped them out or anything\nhe made his barrels with brass rings instead of metal or wood rings like most of\nthe barrels were at that time.  Because before he shipped them out he polished\nthem up and cleaned that barrel up so that when it was sitting on the back of a\nbar it just really shone.  And you got to remember in the 1870s the primary\npackage for whiskey was not the bottle, it was the barrel.  Uh, when you bought\nwhiskey you went to your saloon or liquor store or pharmacist and you took your\nflask or your jug and you had him fill it.  You bought your quart or pint or\nhalf gallon of whiskey right out of the barrel.\n\nAnd when you've got a whole row of eight or ten ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"barrels on the back of the bar\nand this one is just really jumping out you're going to say, \"Ooh, I want to try\nthat one.\"  So he really took the idea of marketing to that level. Uh, and he\nnever lost that talent.  In 1909 I think it was, he changed the label of the Old\nTaylor bottles at that time.  Because by the 1900s they were selling it by the\nbottle.  Bottle had become more popular. It w--uh, the main reason was it became\ncheaper to make.  Bottles were more common.  But he changed the label from white\nto a golden color, golden orange color, because it made the bottle stand out\nbetter on the shelves against the other bottles.  So you know he kept--he had a\ngood understanding on how to, uh, distinguish himself in the marketplace.\n\nSo, uh, the OFC Distillery, when he remodeled it and, uh, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"built it, and then\nhe built the Carlisle Distillery right afterwards, uh, he used these principles.\nHe kept, uh, this to a very modern, uh, place to where people could come and\nvisit.  So, uh, that's pretty much the--what I know about the early part of the\nBuffalo Trace Distillery of now.\n\nTROLAND:  Is it fair to say--\n\nHAY:  Sorry--(unintelligible)--take a--just take a break for a second.\n\nTROLAND:  Sure. Okay.\n\n \n\n \n\n[Pause in recording.]\n\n \n\n \n\nHAY:  Okay. We're rolling.\n\nTROLAND:  Just to clarify something here is it the case that Taylor's post Civil\nWar distillery on the current Buffalo Trace site was the first commercial\ndistillery really there?\n\nVEACH:  Um, I'm not sure how you want to define commercial.  I had an argument\nwith a guy one time that was saying that, you know, \"Evan Williams was the first\ncommercial distillery.\"  Well, how do you define commercial?  If you're selling\nwhiskey to other people then it's commercial far as I'm concerned.  And I would\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"say that, uh, um, uh, the Swigert Distillery was selling whiskey to other\npeople.  So I would say it's a commercial distillery.  What I would say about\nthe Buffalo Trace site is, uh, with Taylor his was the first large-scale\ncommercial distillery there, something done in, in modern terms.  From what I\nunderstand from the, uh, Taylor-Hay collection the Swigert Distillery was\nprobably one of these three-barrel-a-day type operations at the largest.  If it\nwas even--if it was that large.\n\nSo, uh, I would say that, uh, Taylor's operation was much larger.  I mean, uh, I\nthink he was making about twelve or fifteen barrels a day with the OFC\nDistillery. Uh, you know which is quite a bit larger than, uh, what Swigert was\ndoing but, uh, still small on today's standards. Um, but, uh, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would say that\nit was, uh, the first significant, uh, um, commercial distillery in Kentucky as\nfar as being a, uh, a showcase.  I mean it was a distillery that, uh, played\nup--uh, you got to remember in the nineteenth century people were all for modern\nand, uh, uh, and scientific and--and things, uh, that we kind of take for\ngranted today. Uh, it's really interesting when you look at a picture or a\npainting from a nineteenth century distillery, one of the, the, the f--best\nthings that you see about the paintings is this big smokestack with the black\nsmoke just pouring out of it.  You know we look at it and say, \"Ooh, look at the\npollution.\"  But they're looking and saying, \"Ooh, look at the technology and\nthe modernness of that.\" And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2220.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Taylor's distillery there was, uh, probably the\nfirst one to really, uh, showcase that modernness.\n\nTROLAND:  Is there any particular reason why the dist--distillery was put right\nthere?  Is there something about that site on the Kentucky River that's special?\n\nVEACH:  Yeah, there's a spring.  You make whiskey, you need spring water.  You\nneed water.  A good source of clean water.  And there was a spring right there\nwith good constant source of clean water at the time.  You know the whole secret\nto Kentucky distilling is geography.  You know, there's a lot of springs.  That\nmakes it easy to put distilleries up a lot of different places.  So yeah.\nThat's it.\n\nTROLAND:  Is spring water superior for making whiskey to river water, which\nwould also be available at the same site?\n\nVEACH: It was definitely cleaner. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2280.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, you know, I always tell people, you know,\none of the reasons that whiskey became very popular in the 1700s and the 1800s\nis that people learned very quickly that it was a lot safer, uh, to drink your\nriver water with a little whiskey in it than it was to drink that river water\nstraight.  Um, but Kentucky is fortunate that it sits on a limestone shelf.  And\nthe water that comes out of the--this limestone shelf is, uh, free of iron.  And\niron is very bad for whiskey.  So, uh, the spring water there, uh, was very\nimportant at that time because of that. Uh, plus you want a good source of cool\nwater because you use a lot of water in a distilling operation for cooling.  Um,\nso yeah the spring is the, uh, the source there.  It's not as important today as\nit was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2340.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"150 years ago. But, uh, it's still important.\n\nTROLAND:  The fact that the distillery was su--situated on the Kentucky River\nthen is more or less incidental?\n\nVEACH:  Well, I wouldn't say incidental.  But it was a--it was a good location,\nuh, because it had the spring.  It was right on the river, which meant that they\ncould get their whiskey to market if they needed to, you know, by the river. Uh,\nplus it was pretty close to the railroad line.  You got to remember, um, in the\nevolution of, uh, uh, the distilling industry, uh, this is something I talk\nabout in my book, is that you start off, you have farmer distillers.  I mean you\nhave the so-called Industrial Revolution, which is really just a, uh, natural\nevolution of technology. So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2400.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you get farmer distillers who make their product on\na small scale and it's hard to get to market.  You know the--early on you had to\nuse flatboats until eventually there were steamboats and such.  But as\ntechnology improved you have steamboats that can take it to the market quicker.\nUm, then you start getting railroads which make it even easier to get it to market.\n\nBut the railroads do another important thing in that they make a place like\nBuffalo Trace a viable distillery on a large scale because railroads can bring\nin grain.  See, the farmer distillers were pretty much depending upon the grain\nthat could be grown in a certain radius of their distillery.  Um, the railroad\nallows grain to be brought in to big cities.  And you could start making whiskey\nin cities such as Louisville.\n\nUm, steam ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2460.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"power as a whole changes the nature of distilling. One of the, uh,\nthings that E. H. Taylor learned overseas was how to make whiskey in pot stills\nusing steam versus, you know, coal or wood fires.  Um, then you get the\ninvention of the column still.  The column still is the big innovation that\nchanged the bourbon industry in the mid 1800s, the mid nineteenth century.\nBecause the column still allows you to make a lot of whiskey cheap.  But the\ncolumn still is a continuous still, which means it takes a lot of beer to feed\nthat column still.  So in order to make a column still profitable, you have to\nhave a fairly big operation.  Um, you have to have huge mash tubs versus the\nold-fashioned way of using small barrels as your mash tubs. And things ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2520.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like that.\n\nNow Taylor kind of had i--best of both worlds here.  The OFC Distillery was a\npot still distillery.  I don't know if, uh, you realize that or not.  But it\nstarted off it was a pot still distillery.  And they used small tub, uh, ma--uh,\nfermentation.  You know there are pictures in, uh, uh, in a book that we have\nhere from the 1880s I guess it was of the OFC Distillery, and it shows their,\nuh, fermentation floor with a hundred of these fifty-gallon or so barrels used\nas fermentation.  This was to feed the, uh, the pot stills.  The column still\ndistillery that he built at the Carlisle Distillery right next door though was\ndifferent. Uh, like I said, it was a column still.  He had larger, uh,\nfermentators and, uh, it was a continuous operation.  You could make a lot more\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2580.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whiskey cheaper by doing it that way. And, uh, Taylor took advantage of both methods.\n\nTROLAND:  What was Taylor's connection with George T. Stagg and how did that\nevolve over time?\n\nVEACH:  Okay.  Stagg was a, uh, actually a merchant in Saint Louis.  And he\nha--he was a, uh, partner in a firm that was, uh, oh I can't remember the name\nof his partner off the top of my head here.  But it was, uh, so-and-so and\nStagg.  I forget the name of the, the first guy.  But, uh, they were one of\nTaylor's best customers for OFC whiskey.  Well, in the 1870s you have a lot of\nthings go wrong for Taylor. First ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2640.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of all you have an overproduction of whiskey.\nThere was a lot of whiskey on the market.  A lot of this is because you start\nhaving people like rectifiers appear that can make whiskey cheaper and quicker.\nUm, but you also have a lot of the straight whiskey people that are just\ndistilling too much, and too much whiskey on the market.\n\nThen you have the political troubles.  You know, the presidential race was being\ncontested, uh, um, um, and such and there were actually people that were, uh,\nthinking there was a possibility of a, uh, another civil war breaking out over\nthe presidential race. Uh, until finally Hayes is named president, uh, uh, by\nCongress.  And then you throw on top of that there was a rush at the banks.  And\nfinancing became ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2700.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very hard.\n\nYou got to remember at this time, uh, aged whiskey became the standard.  So you\nhad, uh, a large capital investment on your whiskey because you make whiskey,\nyou really don't want to sell it until it's ready.  Well, Taylor ended up in\ngreat financial binds.  At the same time, Taylor was also the guardian for James\nE. Pepper. Uh, James E. Pepper of course was the son of Oscar Pepper, who owned\nthe distillery that Old Crow worked at.  Well, the Oscar Pepper Distillery ended\nup becoming part of, uh, uh, in the hands of Taylor, uh, because he was the\nguardian for, uh, for James E. Pepper.  And he had loaned Pepper some money to\nmake improvements at the distillery and then all of a sudden this bank failure\nhappened. And, uh, Pepper ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2760.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"didn't have the money to pay him back any more than\nTaylor had the money.  So both distilleries were put into bankruptcy.\n\nUh, Labrot and Graham buys the Oscar Pepper Distillery.  And Stagg gives Taylor\nthe money to pay his debts and takes over control of the OFC Distillery in\nreturn.  Tay--in theory Taylor was going to run it for him.  But Stagg was going\nto be the--you know, pay the debts and Taylor would eventually pay him back.\n\nWell, eventually what happened was that Stagg took over, uh, complete control of\nthe distillery.  And, uh, had a falling out with Taylor. Uh, basically Stagg was\nof the, uh, theory that 'we're going to make it cheap and we're going to make a\nlot of it.' And Taylor was saying, \"No, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2820.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've always made a quality product here\nand I want to continue to make a quality product here.  We're going to do it my\nway.\"  And Stagg says, \"No, not while you owe me this money.\"  And eventually,\nuh, um, Taylor resigns and leaves.\n\nTaylor at that time had another distillery, uh, that he had bought.  And that\ndistillery was--at that time was known as the Jac--Jacob Swigert Taylor\nDistillery.  His son was running it for him.  And he moved there.  And they\nturned that distillery into the, uh, Old Taylor Distillery, E. H. Taylor and\nSons.  And once again Taylor takes advantage of what I was saying earlier.  Um,\nhe rebuilds the distillery basically, uh, uh, from the ground up and it becomes\nthe, uh, familiar castle distillery that is at that site ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2880.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now. But, uh, that is,\nuh, um, Taylor and Stagg's relationship. Uh, they continued to have, uh, legal\nproblems all the way up into the 1880s, uh, because Stagg was using Taylor's\nname still on his OFC brand, and Taylor didn't want that.  So he took him to\ncourt and forced him to, uh, uh, take his name off the labels.  Off the\nbarrelheads and such and the advertisements.\n\nAnd it's interesting because it's about that time that people quit referring to\nit as the Old Fashioned Copper Distillery and started calling it the Old Fire\nCopper Distillery.  And I always wondered if that might have been part of the\nlegal, uh, um settlement was to kind of change the name a bit too.\n\nTROLAND: So that parting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2940.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the ways between E. H. Taylor and George T. Stagg\nended the, the period of time in which Taylor had anything to do with the site\ncurrently called Buffalo Trace.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND:  Where do we bring Albert Blanton into this picture?\n\nVEACH:  Well, Stagg runs the distillery and, uh, he actually ends up, uh, um,\nworking for some other people, making whiskey for some other people and things\nlike that.  But, uh, Blanton actually joins the, uh, the company in the late\n1800s. Uh, works his way up till he becomes the plant manager of the distillery,\nuh, before Prohibition.  And he is in charge of the, uh, distillery during the\nProhibition period. And, uh, is there when, uh, the Schenley Distilling ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3000.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Company\nbuys the plant.  So that's where, uh, Blanton comes in.  He really, uh, doesn't\nhave any, uh, uh, family ties that I know of to the ownership of the site or\nanything until he actually goes to work there and works his way up to become\nplant manager and, and all that.  And I'm really not even sure that he owned the\nplant during the, uh, Prohibition period.  It may still have been in the hands\nof the Stagg heirs, George T. Stagg's heirs, when it was sold to Schenley.\n\nTROLAND:  So when was it sold to Schenley?\n\nVEACH:  Uh, right after Prohibition is when they, uh, uh, officially bought it.\nUh, so that would have been '33.  But they had been buying the whiskey from\nthere, uh, all through Prohibition. They, they were one of the companies ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3060.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that\nwere allowed to sell during Prohibition.  And they were buying, uh, whiskey and,\nuh, one of their bottling operations I believe was at the Stagg Distillery, even\nthough they didn't actually own the distillery at the time.\n\nTROLAND:  What was taking place at the distillery during Prohibition?\n\nVEACH:  Not a whole lot.  You have to remember that Prohibition comes in 1920.\nIt became illegal to distill.  Um, what happened legally was that there were a\ncertain amount of companies that were granted, uh, uh, what they called\nconsolidation warehouse licenses. Uh, these were warehouses to where, uh, the\ngovernment concentrated, uh, the amount of whiskey that was out there.  You got\nto remember when Prohibition comes about, it was not illegal to own ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3120.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whiskey. Uh,\nit was not illegal to drink whiskey.  You know if, if you had a hundred bottles\nof whiskey at your home and you wanted to drink it every night there was nothing\nillegal about it.  What was illegal was to sell it to someone else.\n\nSo when they closed all these distilleries these distillers still had a lot of\nwhiskey in their warehouses.  And it was their property.  The government\ncouldn't take it.  And it was really not until 1922 that they created the\nconsolidation warehouse system because they found out that, uh, they just needed\nto get a handle on all of this whiskey that was out there because it was still\nflowing quite freely.\n\nSo they created these consolidation warehouses.  And, uh, Stagg Distillery was\none of these consolidated warehouses. So when Prohibition came about there was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3180.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\na need for medicinal alcohol.  You got to remember in 1920 they didn't have the,\nuh, pharmaceuticals that we have today. Uh, all through the nineteenth century\nyou know your major, uh, pharmaceuticals were whiskey, quinine, uh, laudanum and\nopiates.  I mean that was about the extent of your medicines.  So whiskey was\nstill a very important medicine at that time.  So there were people, companies\nthat were granted licenses to sell.\n\nAnd these companies were American Medicinal Spirits, which later became National\nDistillers.  Um, there was Schenley Distilleries.  There was Brown-Forman.\nThere was Frankfort Distillers.  And there was James Thompson and Brother which\nlater became Glenmore.  And then there was the Arthur Philip Stitzel Distillery.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3240.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But W. L. Weller and Sons piggybacked on the Arthur Philip Stitzel Distillery's\nlicense, because at that time Arthur Philip Stitzel was the, uh, uh, president\nof Stitzel Distilling Company.  Alex Farnsley was vice president and Julian P.\nVan Winkle was, uh, secretary-treasurer.  W. L. Weller and Sons, Julian P. Van\nWinkle was president.  Alex T. Farnsley was vice president.  And Arthur Philip\nStitzel was secretary-treasurer.  So even though they weren't officially merged,\nthey were, they were the same company even though they weren't on paper.  So\nthey piggybacked on, uh, uh--Weller piggybacked on Stitzel's license to sell\nmedicinal alcohol.\n\nSo their markets were basically pharmacies.  Doctors could write, uh, a\nprescription for a pint of alcohol every two weeks to a person. Uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3300.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they were\ndoctors' and dentists' offices.  You could sell twelve pints a year to doctors\nand dentists for office use.  And bakers could buy twelve pints of brandy and\nrum a year for baking purposes.  So those were their markets. Uh, needless to\nsay, this was a greatly reduced market over what they were selling before\nProhibition came about.\n\nSo what happened was that you had all this whiskey in these warehouses, and\nthese people were allowed to sell it.  And they were able to sell whiskey from\nall these different companies. Uh, for example, uh, W. L. Weller and Sons.  If\nthey ran out of Cabin Still whiskey they could go and talk to, uh, uh, oh\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3360.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mattingly from Mattingly and Moore and say, \"We need some whiskey, you own a\nhundred barrels, will you sell it to us?\"  They could buy that and they could\nput that in their Cabin Still brand.\n\nOr what was also happening was that these companies were saying, \"Okay.\"  Um,\nHenry McKenna whiskey still owned by the--the McKenna family, \"We will bottle\nthat and sell it for you, and we'll take, you know, a dollar a case for our\nefforts.  Plus you will pay us for the pr--our cost for, uh, uh, bottling and\nstorage.\"  So needless to say nobody was getting rich off of this type of\noperation.  Um, it was, uh, a time when the distillers, uh, were barely making\nit by. But, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3420.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"um, things started changing in 1928.\n\nThe government saw that, uh, we were running out of medicinal whiskey, so they\nallowed the industry to make three million gallons a year to replace dwindling\nstocks.  So after 1928, uh, you start having some small-scale distillation.  The\namount of whiskey that you could distill was based upon how much your share of\nthe whiskey in the warehouse was.  So the biggest two companies were National\nDistillers and Schenley Distillers.  They were able to make the most whiskey at\nthis point. Uh, some distillers such as, uh, in 1928 Brown-Forman and Frankfort\nDistilleries both didn't even own a distillery anymore.  You know, it'd been\nscrapped and take--you know, out of circulation completely.\n\nSo they went to Stitzel ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3480.0,3540.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Distillery. And Stitzel made whiskey for himself and\nthese other two companies in 1928.  And Brown-Forman gets their own distillery\nup and going in '29. Uh, Frankfort Distillery never gets their distillery going\nand they end up buying the old Stitzel Distillery down on Story Avenue in\nLouisville, uh, after Prohibition ends.  And Stitzel and Weller officially merge\nand build their distillery out in Shively.\n\nTROLAND:  So there was no distillation during Prohibition at all taking place at\nthe Buffalo Trace site.\n\nVEACH:  Not until 1928.\n\nTROLAND:  I see.  It began in 1928.  You use the term Frankfort Distillers.  Is\nthat Stitzel?\n\nVEACH:  That--that's the company that is now, uh, Four Roses.  Four Roses was\ntheir big brand at that time.  It was owned by, uh, the Jones family.\n\nTROLAND:  So that's completely independent of Buffalo Trace.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND:  Current Buffalo Trace site.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND:  But nonetheless in 1928 or 1929 distillation did recommence at the\nBuffalo Trace site.\n\nVEACH: Right. Under Schenley's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3540.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"license.\n\nTROLAND:  And prior to that time during Prohibition in effect nothing happened there.\n\nVEACH:  Right.  Nothing legal.\n\n \n\n \n\n[Pause in recording.]\n\n \n\n \n\nTROLAND:  Let's talk a little bit about the Buffalo Trace site and the\narchitectural significance of some of the structures on that site.  The oldest\nsite is the Commodore Richard Taylor House.  Can you tell me anything about that structure?\n\nVEACH:  Not really because, uh, I really haven't studied, uh, uh, that in itself\nother than the fact that I know that it was there.  You know.  Um, the\ns--architecturally the thing that makes the site to me most important is going\nback to what I was saying about Taylor and making the modern great-looking\ninnovative distillery. The fact that he used brick warehouses, and not only did ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3600.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nhe use brick warehouses, he steam-heated them.  And these were all new\ninnovations in the 1870s. Uh, some of the letters in his letterpress book talk\nabout, uh, uh, such details as putting the, uh, the keystone above the door that\nsays OFC on one of the warehouses, um, and paying extra to get that done, you\nknow, and things like that.\n\nUh, architecturally I would say that it's really one of the first modern\ndistilleries. Uh, it takes advantage of all of the, the new technology of the\nday and the new building methods and things such as that.\n\nTROLAND:  Many of the warehouses on the site are large structures.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND:  Were these the first or among the first large structures used to store bourbon?\n\nVEACH: Mm ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3660.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"probably not. Uh, there is a whiskey warehouse that you can see along\nI-64, um, right around Midway.  It's off on the north side of the expressway\nthere.  And, uh, it's a pretty good size building.  And it was a whiskey\nwarehouse.  It's now like a barn you know.  Because this was a warehouse that\nwas built before the, uh, ricking systems were, were built.  But, uh, you know,\nthere were large warehouses, you know, prior to, uh, the Civil War.  I mean, uh,\nyou know, people knew what they were doing back then.  And they had a need for\nit. Uh, uh, you start getting large-scale distilleries with--like I said with\nthe building of the column still and things like that in the 1840s. Uh, you\nstart getting large, uh, uh, amounts of whiskey being made and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3720.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stored to be\naged.  You know once, uh, uh, aged bourbon became the standard.\n\nSo, um, no, I wouldn't say that they were the first large-scale.  But like I\nsaid they are the first to be--to introduce such modern, uh, uh, innovations as\nsteam heating to try to age the whiskey faster by cycling the heat during the\nwinter and things like that.\n\nTROLAND:  The warehouses on the Buffalo Trace site have many different designs.\nSome are brick.  Some I believe are stone.  Is there any significance to these\ndifferent designs?  Any explanation why they chose different architectural\ntechniques for different warehouses?\n\nVEACH:  They were built in different eras and, uh, when you look at it, uh, uh,\nyou know, each owner of the distillery probably wanted to put their own ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3780.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mark on\nthe distillery and probably hired a different designer to design the, uh,\nwarehouses. Uh, you know, and new building materials and things were becoming\navailable. Uh, some of the masonry that's used on some of the newest warehouses\nout there weren't available when the earliest ones were built. Uh, so I think\nthat probably has more to do with just simply the time they were built and\nmaterials available and things like that.\n\nTROLAND:  Any other thoughts about the architecture of the Buffalo Trace site?\n\nVEACH:  Well, I think it is a very interesting site, simply because it does\ncover such a large amount of, uh, uh, time period.  You've got some of the\nearliest stuff from the 1870s all the way up to the, uh, 1930s when Schenley\nfirst, uh, took it over and started building things.  And then even into the,\nuh, 1950s when there was a real bourbon boom and they needed more warehouse\nspaces. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3840.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, I think that, uh, the fact that there is such this wide spread of,\nuh, uh, materials, uh, of, uh, you know, of examples of architecture makes it a\nvery interesting site.  Something you really don't see at the other\ndistilleries, because most of them were pretty much built at one time.  And, you\nknow, about the closest thing you're going to find to it is the old Oscar Pepper\nDistillery which is, you know, Woodford Reserve just down the road.  You know,\nit's got its core buildings that were built in the 1830s and then it's got some,\nuh, masonry type warehouses that were built you know probably in the 1930s.\n\nTROLAND:  So in many ways the architectural significance of the Buffalo Trace\nsite lies in the diversity of styles that go back over a very long period of time.\n\nVEACH:  Right.  Right.  A hundred years' or more worth of architectural design.\nI guess you could say ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3900.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"140 years now since it's, uh, 1870 to 2010, 2011.\n\nTROLAND:  What can you tell me about the development of the term bourbon to\ndescribe native American whiskey?\n\nVEACH:  That's an interesting subject. Uh, I have my own theories. Uh, the\nlegend has it, you know, with Elijah Craig creating bourbon and all that. Uh,\nthe Crowgey book Kentucky Bourbon does a very good job of dispelling that myth.\nUh, I highly recommend it to anybody who wants to, uh, uh, uh, learn more on why\nElijah Craig was not the inventor of bourbon, to try, uh, uh, to read Crowgey's\nbook Kentucky Bourbon.  But my theory on bourbon whiskey, uh, and a lot of this\nis based upon what Crowgey wrote is the fact that, you know, you don't see\nadvertisement in newspapers ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=3960.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for bourbon whiskey until 1821. And if, uh, uh,\nElijah Craig created it in 1789, you're going to tell me that it took what,\nthirty-two years for someone to advertise it in a newspaper? Uh, I think it was\na much more popular product than, uh, than that even early on.\n\nYou know, and the legend has it that it was named after Bourbon County.  But I\nhave yet to find an 1820s or '30 document that says that.  So you really don't\nknow where the term bourbon came from other than the fact that it's the name of\nthe French royal family.  So my theory on the origin of bourbon whiskey is that\nit wasn't a distiller that, uh, created bourbon whiskey at all.  It was one of\nthese grocers that I was talking about earlier. Because ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4020.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you got to remember\nearly farmer distillers were working in pot stills of twenty gallons to maybe\ntwo hundred gallons in size.  You work all day on a two-hundred-gallon pot\nstill, you might get twenty gallons of whiskey.  You know that's not even a\nbarrel's worth.\n\nYou're not putting this into barrels, you're putting it in jugs.  You're doing\nthat for a couple reasons.  One is is that during the tax period the government\nwas charging you.  You made twenty gallons of whiskey, you paid twenty gallons\nof taxes.  You put it in a barrel, what's the first thing that happens?  You\nlose three gallons.  You got whiskey that soaks into the wood.  If you just lost\nthree gallons of whiskey, that's three gallons' worth of taxes you just lost.\n\nSo these farmer distillers were probably putting it in jugs.  They were selling\nit to grocers. Well, from the Corlis-Respess ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4080.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family Papers again, because\nCorlis being the merchant that he was in Providence, Rhode Island was a merchant\nhere in, uh, uh, Kentucky as well.  What he was doing, he was buying tobacco\nfrom farmers, shipping it down to New Orleans in flatboats, and using his\nshipping connections from Providence and New York and other New England seaports\nto ship this tobacco to France and England and sell it for good profits.\n\nWell, sometimes he'd make the trip himself.  Sometimes he would, uh, uh, send a\nproctor down there.  When he sent a proctor the proctor would often write\nletters back to him giving him prices of different goods, what they were selling\nfor in New--in New Orleans.  The price of whiskey in New Orleans in the 1810s\nwas the same price as it was here in Kentucky. So why bother? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4140.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you weren't\ngoing to get any more money for it in New Orleans, send tobacco, where you're\ngoing to make money.\n\nSo you got to remember too that it takes a year to make this trip.  You know you\nget your goods together spring of the year, you get to the falls of the Ohio,\nyou wait until the, uh, uh, the river is right and then you send your boat over\nthe falls of the Ohio and, uh, uh, after putting your goods into a warehouse\nand, uh, uh, if your boat survived you load your goods back up and you continued\nyour journey.  If you didn't, you had two choices: buy another boat or sell your\ngoods to whoever would buy them.\n\nBut you continue your journey all the way down to New Orleans, it takes you two,\nthree months to do this on a flatboat. When ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4200.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you get down there you sell your\ngoods, and then you sell your flatboat, because you're not going to pull that\nboat all the way back upriver.  Then you have two choices.  You catch ship.\nThis is what Corlis usually did--or always did really.  Catch ship, sail back\nto, uh, New England and come back into Kentucky the way you came originally.  Or\nyou walk back up the Natchez Trace.  And yes you could ride a horse, but that's\nstill pretty much walking pace comparatively.\n\nSo it took you about a year to make this trip.  So when it first happened, when\nyou first start sending goods down there, you know you might just say, \"Okay,\nthat was a bad year.\"  You might do this for two or three years.  You know\nbecause if you only make one trip a year you only get one chance.  And\neventually someone realized okay, they're not buying our corn whiskey ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4260.0,4320.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"down\nthere.  What are they buying?  What are they drinking down in New Orleans in the\n1810s and the 1820s?  Well, first of all you got to realize who are these\npeople.  For the most part they're Frenchmen.  What are Frenchmen drinking down\nin New Orleans?  They're drinking French brandy, cognac, Armagnac.  What makes\nFrench brandy different from our whiskey?  It's aged in charred barrels.  Cognac\nhad been, uh, uh, aged in charred barrels since the 1400s.\n\nSo someone got the idea let's make Kentucky whiskey taste more like cognac.\nLet's age it in charred barrels.  And when they start sending it down there,\npeople start buying it.  So the legend has it then that you know they saw the\nBourbon County ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4320.0,4380.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stencil on the invoice and they started asking for the Bourbon\nCounty whiskey.  Like I said I have yet to find any documents from this period\nthat says that.  But I did have an interesting conversation with a researcher\nhere at, uh, the Filson.  She specialized in steamboats.\n\nAnd of course by the 1820s you start getting steamboat traffic on the, uh, Ohio\nand the Mississippi River.  The one independent person on a steamboat--you know\nthe steamboat was usually owned, uh, by a, a group or even the captain sometimes\nowned the steamboat.  And everything on that steamboat was owned by these\npeople.  Except for one thing: the bar.  The bartender was an independent\noperator.  So he could buy whatever he wanted and stock the steamboat for the\npassengers. In my opinion it is just as likely in the age of steamboats that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4380.0,4440.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nyou started having people that were getting down there and saying, \"Okay, I\nreally like that whiskey I bought, you know, down in New Orleans, down there on\nBourbon Street, you know, uh, let me have some of that Bourbon Street whiskey,\nor let me have that bourbon whiskey.\"  To me that's just as likely as it is\nnamed after Bourbon County.\n\nTROLAND:  That's interesting.  Historical evidence can't distinguish between the\nname of this whiskey coming from a county in Kentucky or the name of this\nwhiskey coming from a street in New Orleans.\n\nVEACH:  Well, the one common thing that we can all agree on, it was named after\nthe French royal family.  But you got to remember a lot of these French people\nin New Orleans at that time are loyal to the French royal, uh, family because\nthey didn't like what was going on in France.  What was going on in France at\nthat time was the French Revolution.  And a lot of the noble families were\nliterally losing their heads.  So rather than lose their heads, they came to the\nNew World. Um, so it wouldn't surprise me at all that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4440.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a third possibility is is\nthat, that the story was made up because some Kentuckian wanted to market to\nthese French, French people, say, \"Yeah, see, it's all from Bourbon County, it's\nnamed after your king.\"  So I mean you know that is a likely story as well.  The\nfact of the matter is is that unless we can find more information we're not\nlikely to ever know.  And the information is hard to come by simply because, uh,\nlike I said the tax from 1817 to 1861 did not exist, so you don't have\ngovernment records, federal government records. Uh, you're pretty much dependent\nupon family records of the--the people that owned these distilleries.  And\nthere's just not a whole lot of them out there. Uh, particularly from that very\nearly period.\n\nEven when there was a tax, during the Whiskey Rebellion and, uh, period and then\nthe War of 1812, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4500.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they don't exist, because we had the flood in 1937, and they\nwere stored in the, uh, federal courthouse in Louisville.  And guess what?\nThey're no longer around.  So a lot of this information, you, you really just\ncan't find.\n\nTROLAND:  Regardless of the exact origin of the term bourbon as applied to a\nstyle of American whiskey, roughly when did the term come into common usage?\n\nVEACH:  Well, like I said, the first advertisement was 1821. Uh, by the 1830s\nit's a common style of whiskey that everybody recognizes. Uh, by the e--by the\nCivil War it is a real common, uh, style of whiskey. Uh, there are recording,\nuh--there's a recorded incidence of, uh, uh, uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4560.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Louis-Napoleon. You know the\nsecond emperor.  Napoleon III who came to the United States.  And, uh, he saw a\nsoldier, uh, drinking from a flask.  And, uh, the soldier offered him a drink.\nAnd he took a drink and he really liked it.  And he says, \"Ooh, what is this?\"\nAnd he says, \"That's bourbon whiskey.\"  And he says, \"I never thought I would\nlike anything with the name Bourbon.\"\n\nTROLAND:  So by the mid nineteenth century at least if someone asked for bourbon\nwhiskey, a knowledgeable person would know precisely what, what that meant.\n\nVEACH:  Right.  Just like they would know what Monongahela rye or Maryland rye\nwas as well.\n\nTROLAND:  What about the development of charred barrels?  You've talked a bit\nabout that earlier today.  But at what point in history did charred barrels\nbecome widely associated with bourbon ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4620.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whiskey?\n\nVEACH:  Once again I think, uh, it's, uh, pretty much--I think, uh, the charred\nbarrel is what makes bourbon bourbon.  So you can pretty much figure charred\nbarrels was being used in 1821 when the first bourbon was being advertised in\nthe newspaper. Uh, I really think that bourbon whiskey comes about in 1817.\nBecause that's when the whiskey tax was repealed for the second time. Um, like I\nsaid the first thing that happens when you put whiskey into a barrel is you lose\nthree gallons.  And without a tax on it that's no big deal.  But with a tax\nyou're losing money.  So I think in 1817 you start getting, uh, uh, bourbon\nwhiskey put in charred barrels.  And, my, my theory is that it's the people that\nput the, uh, uh--the first ones to make bourbon, it was, uh, first made right\nhere in Louisville. I think that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4680.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it was the Tarascon brothers.\n\nThe Tarascon brothers were two Frenchmen that came to Louisville to set up trade\nin New Orleans.  They come from an area in France just south of the cognac\nregion, so they know about cognac, they know about what the French people down\nthere are drinking.  More importantly, they build a mill and a warehouse at the\nfalls of the Ohio.  So they have ample opportunity to buy whiskey from these\npeople that were sending it down the river and their boats didn't make it.  And\nthey knew about charred barrels.  They could buy all these jugs of whiskey, fill\nup some charred barrels, let it age for a while, send it down to New Orleans,\nand like I said, if they were, uh, uh, imaginative enough they could have said,\n\"Okay, we'll call it bourbon whiskey, we'll say it's named after Bourbon County\nin order to attract our French brothers ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4740.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to buy it.\"\n\nTROLAND:  And what time in history do you, do you think the product called\nbourbon whiskey began to resemble what we today see as bourbon whiskey?\n\nVEACH:  James Crow.\n\nTROLAND:  Excuse me?\n\nVEACH:  James Crow.  When he started, uh, uh, making his whiskey and, uh, uh,\nkeeping the scientific records, checking pH and temperature and all that stuff\nin order to replicate it, uh, he made a product that, uh, uh, became the\njudgment of what everybody considered good bourbon whiskey.  And you know if his\nwas the standard that you judged by then obviously he was the one that first\nmade it to what we recognize as bourbon whiskey today.\n\nTROLAND:  So his whiskey would have for example been aged in new charred barrels.\n\nVEACH: Not necessarily new. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4800.0,4860.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You got to remember the new charred barrel thing,\nit doesn't come about until 1935.  Or '37 actually. Uh, I believe it's, uh,\nMarch 1st, 1937 is what the law says, that any whiskey, uh, that wants to be\ncalled straight whiskey, uh, has to be put in a brand-new charred barrel at that\npoint.  So, uh, you know, used cooperage was quite common.  In the, uh,\nTaylor-Hay pa--Family Papers, uh, he's selling his straight whiskey and, uh, his\nbourbon whiskey to, uh, actually, uh, uh, Labrot's father Augustus Labrot, uh,\nwho was a whiskey merchant in Cincinnati.  He's selling a lot of whiskey to him.\n\nAnd there's a letter in there where he--where Labrot says, \"I've got a bad\nbarrel of whiskey.  It's just really bad.\"  And Taylor says, \"Well, send it back\nto me.  We'll see what's wrong with it.\"  He gets there and he finds it, and he\nfinds out that the cooper had repaired the barrel using a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4860.0,4920.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"nail and some leather,\nand that metal in the nail caused the whiskey to go bad.  The leather didn't\nhelp any either but, uh, but obviously that was a used barrel.  When you ordered\nbarrels you got--you know the way the new cooperage comes about is because like\nI said the main package for selling whiskey in the nineteenth century was the\nbarrel.  If you're selling OFC whiskey to, uh, uh, Gregory--Gregory and Stagg's.\nGregory was the partner of Stagg.  If you were selling it to Gregory and Stagg\nin Saint Louis and you were sending a hundred barrels, you weren't going to get\nthose barrels back.  You had to call the cooper, you know get ahold of the\ncooper and say, \"Send me--make me another hundred barrels.  Or I need another\nhundred barrels.\"  You wouldn't say, \"Make me,\" necessarily.  \"I need another\nhundred barrels.\"  Well, the cooper might get ahold of some used barrels from\nliquor stores and saloons here in town and just refurbish them.  So you had a\ncertain percentage that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4920.0,4980.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would be used cooperage.\n\nTROLAND:  So you might say that the final element that led to the production of\nthe bourbon that we define today was the requirement--\n\nVEACH: Requirement.\n\nTROLAND: --of the new cooperage as of 1937.\n\nVEACH:  Right.  Right.  That really is kind of the final requirement, uh,\nmanufacturing-wise. Uh, the real final requirement is the, uh, 1964 law making\nit a product of the United States.  But that doesn't really affect the manufacture.\n\nTROLAND:  Consider Pappy Van Winkle as a figure in the history of bourbon.  What\nwould you say was his most significant contribution to the bourbon industry?\n\nVEACH:  Pappy Van Winkle was a man much like E. H. Taylor.  He knew how to\nmarket, you know. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=4980.0,5040.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, Pappy was not a distiller, never claimed to be a\ndistiller.  He knew good bourbon.  But he was, he was the marketing.  He was the\nsalesman.  And a lot of things that you see Bill Samuels doing today with\nMaker's Mark, uh, you could see he might have even gotten the idea from some of\nthe things that Pappy did. Uh, he was a very innovative person. Uh, Pappy Van\nWinkle was responsible at Stitzel-Weller, uh, in the 1940s.  There were people\nthat remembered what whiskey tasted like before Prohibition.  Back when you\ncould buy it right out of the barrel.  And, uh, you didn't have to buy it in the\nbottle.  You know, because right up to Prohibition you could buy it right out of\nthe barrel.  You know, people talk about barrel proof single barrel whiskeys.\nUh, that's what all the whiskey was back before Prohibition if you wanted it to be.\n\nBut he knew people liked this. So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5040.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what'd he do? He introduced a barrel proof\nproduct.  And, uh, you know, this is something that, uh, nobody else really\ncaught on to until, uh, you know Booker.  Booker Noe when it first came out was\na barrel proof product.\n\nUh, Julian Van Winkle used to write a, uh, uh, a small column in different\nnewspapers.  He would sell it to these different newspapers.  Which was\nbasically a advertising piece for Old Fitzgerald whiskey.  You know, and some of\nthe stories that he told were--sound like stories that, you know, Bill Samuels\nwould be telling today.  You know. Uh, he was a very good marketing person and,\nuh, knew what he was doing.  And I think that he kind of took, uh, uh, the\nmarketing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5100.0,5160.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one step further than E. H. Taylor and kind of brought it into the\ntwentieth century, whereas Taylor you know brought it up to the twentieth\ncentury, the end of the nineteenth century.  He was the big innovator.  I think\nJulian Van Winkle carried on that tradition.  And I would say Bill Samuels is\nthe one that kind of brought it into the twenty-first century.\n\nTROLAND:  We've interviewed a number of other people as a part of this project\nso far.  One of them was Ronnie Eddins who sadly passed away recently.  What do\nyou know about Ronnie Eddins?  Any reflections on him and his role?\n\nVEACH:  Actually I only met the guy a couple times at the distillery.  I really\ndidn't know him that much.  I wish I did know him better.  But, uh, uh, you know\nlike I said my, my connections are really more with the United Distillers, uh,\nuh, companies and there, uh, you know I know people at Buffalo Trace but I never\nlike ever worked on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5160.0,5220.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"site there. So I really didn't know all of the people.\n\nTROLAND:  What about Elm--Elmer T. Lee?  Certainly a very well-known figure.\n\nVEACH:  Yes.  Elmer T. Lee is a bit of a different story.  He's one of the first\npeople I met from there, because as archivist at United Distillers I had met him\nat an event somewhere along the line.  And I invited him to come out to visit\nthe archives.\n\nSo he came out with a young lady that was his assistant at the time out actually\nrunning the visitor center for what they had in 1993 or so when this happened.\nUm, she drove him out to visit me, and I spent a day with him at the archives,\nand, uh, showing him all the things that we had and talking with him.  Got to\nknow him fairly well. Uh, and I've, you know, known El--Elmer since then, and\nsee him at different events, and things like that.  But once again I've never\nreally worked with him. So I really couldn't, uh, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5220.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wouldn't consider him an\nintimate acquaintance.  But I would consider him a friend.\n\nTROLAND:  Anyone else, uh, associated with Buffalo Trace that you know something\nabout and might have a reflection upon?\n\nVEACH:  Not really.  Because like I said you know I--I--I know these people but,\nuh, uh, and I've talked with them and met them at, uh, different events and\nsuch.  But I, you know, haven't like, spent free time with them.  You know what\nI mean?  So, uh, I really can't reflect too much on the people at Buffalo Trace.\n\nTROLAND:  Any thoughts about the contribution of Buffalo Trace, by which I mean\nthe distillery, down through history, to the history of bourbon apart from what\nwe've discussed already?\n\nVEACH:  I think Buffalo Trace's, uh, main significance other than what we've\ntalked about today ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5280.0,5340.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really has to do with the fact that, you know, when bourbon\nwas on a deep decline in the seventies and early eighties, uh, there were\nexecutives that were part of Schenley at the time that were courageous enough to\npool their money and buy the distillery and go independent.  You know, you've\ngot a product that i--like I said has been declining for every year for a\ndecade.  And you're, you know--I can imagine them going home to their wife and\nsaying--and their wife saying, \"You did what?\"\n\nYou know, uh, bourbon sales weren't the greatest in the world.  And they were\nstill declining.  And they went independent.  And by doing so, uh, they created\nthe concept of the modern single barrel bourbon.  And, you know, I won't say\nthat they saved the bourbon industry. Uh, I really think that what saved the\nbourbon industry was the scotch ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5340.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"industry. Uh, the fact that they introduced\nsingle malt scotches about the same period, the early ei--1980s, late seventies,\nearly eighties.  They introduced single malt scotches to America.  And, uh,\nstarted convincing people that you could enjoy brown spirits in the same way\nthat you enjoy wine and such, you know. Uh, I really guess I should say--go back\nand talk a little bit about the decline of bourbon.  I mean you've got a, uh,\ngolden age of bourbon through the fifties and early sixties where they were\nmaking whiskey and selling it as fast as they could make it.  Sales were\nincreasing.  People were drinking it.\n\nThen you had the Vietnam War hit and you started getting a generation of, of\npeople that were saying, \"Don't trust anybody over thirty. Uh, we're not going\nto drink the same things that our parents drink.\"  And, uh, they started\ndrinking things such as, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5400.0,5460.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"uh, uh, vodka. Vodka was a category that the\ngovernment did not even bother to keep track of, uh, in the trade publications\nuntil 1970.  There was another new product, tequila.  Another product that the\ngovernment had never kept track of until late in the seventies.  They started\nenjoying wine and they started enjoying beer.  And of course, uh, uh, not only\ndid they have these legal products to compete with, you had the illegal\nsubstances that they had to compete with.  So bourbon started going into a decline.\n\nAnd it's kind of ironic that it's the same thing that caused the decline in the\nwine and, uh, the wine tastings and such that led to its rebirth.  Because by\ntaking single malt scotch whiskey and treating it as wine, uh, and, and doing\nwine, uh, scotch whiskey tastings pointing out the different nuances ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5460.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of flavors\nand such, uh, that, uh, showed people that hard brown spirits can be something\nthat can be enjoyed.  It's not something you just shoot back, you know, with a\nbeer chaser.\n\nWell, Buffalo Trace, which was at that time Ancient Age, came up with the idea\nof the single barrel bourbon.  And by treating it as a single barrel bourbon, as\na special high quality product, and equating it basically with the single malt\nscotch--you know a lot of people are going to say, \"Ooh, single malt, single\nbarrel, that, that, that must be the same type stuff.\"  You know the--let's face\nit, most of the marketed, uh, the people the marketing people are aiming at\naren't very bright.  Um, but it caught on.  And it created the idea that bourbon\ncould be enjoyed for ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5520.0,5580.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"flavor. That it could be enjoyed for something other than\nmixing with your Coke or, uh, shooting back with your beer chaser.\n\nAnd I think that is the, uh, uh, the significance, uh, of Buffalo Trace at that\ntime.  You also have to consider that you know imitation is the sincerest form\nof flattery so to speak.  And, and so if they were imitating the, uh,\nscotch--single malt scotches with their single barrel products, Jim Beam was\nimitating Buffalo Trace when they came out with the small batch products.  You\nknow, small batch was, you know, Jim Beam's answer to the single barrel.  They\nwanted to do something along the same lines, but they didn't want to jump on the\nsingle barrel bandwagon.  So they introduced small batch products.\n\nAnd then you start, uh, uh, getting the growth in the, uh, other super premium\ncategory of extra aged products. This goes, uh, a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5580.0,5640.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole lot, uh, to the credit\nof Julian Van Winkle III. Uh, he was the one that took, uh, you know when his\nfamily sold the Stitzel-Weller Distillery to Norton-Simon, his father continued\nto bottle decanters basically through the seventies into the eighties.  Julian\ntook it out of thi--the selling the decanter business into making a, uh, a very\nlegitimate, uh, super premium whiskey market business.\n\nAnd extra aged products, uh, became the n--the next big category.  And between\nthese three categories of super premium whiskeys that's what started leading the\nrebirth of bourbon to, to where we are today.\n\nTROLAND:  And Julian Van Winkle is now affiliated with Buffalo Trace.\n\nVEACH:  This is true.\n\nTROLAND:  Continuing the circle, if you like, of innovation.\n\nVEACH:  Mm hm. Yes.\n\nTROLAND: Mark Brown has ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5640.0,5700.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"famously said, \"The best bourbon is yet to be made.\"\nWhat do you make of that comment?\n\nVEACH:  I can agree with him to a point.  But I can tell you this.  I've had a\nlot of really old bourbon, and there was a lot of very good ones.  So, uh, you\nknow, I might even say, you know, some of the best bourbon has been made, we\njust don't know--don't remember how it was made.\n\nTROLAND:  Suppose a distillery were to attempt to create the bourbons of\nyesteryear, the ones which in your judgment in some cases at least are of\nextremely high quality.  How would they do things differently today to recreate\nthose bourbons of the past?\n\nVEACH:  Well, first of all, lower distillation proof and lower barrel proof. Uh,\nlike I said nineteenth century, most whiskey went into the barrel at the proof\nthat you were going to drink it at. So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5700.0,5760.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"most of them went into the barrel right\nat a hundred proof or so, you know within 5 percent, you know--or five proof\nmarks, either way.  So, uh, lower distillation proof is going to leave more\nflavor from the grains.  Lower barrel proof is going to allow the, uh, the\nwhiskey to age different.  Brown-Forman spent a quarter million dollars I think\nI heard from--from one source say, uh, at a top-notch university in Germany that\nspecializes in, uh, uh, in food products and such.  And they spent a quarter\nmillion dollars just to find out that lower barrel proof, uh, water aged in you\nknow with the lower barrel proof with whiskey dissolves more--or different, uh,\nflavor agents than the alcohol. And the flavor agents that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5760.0,5820.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the, uh, uh, water\ndissolves are more of the sugars like the caramel and vanillas and the more\ndesirables whereas the alcohol dissolves more of the tannins.  So if you want a\ngood flavorful caramel vanilla flavor from your barrel, lower barrel proof is\ngoing to do it.  You know, and I could have told them the same thing without\nspending--you know they could have given me a quarter million dollars.  I could\nhave told them that. Uh, just by drinking old whiskeys.\n\nOld whiskeys went into the barrel--if you look at old barrel receipts, warehouse\nreceipts, uh, all the way up through the fifties, it was going into the barrel\nat a hundred proof or 101 proof or 105 proof. As a matter of fact until the\n1960s the maximum legal barrel proof was 110.  And it's only in the 1960s that\nthey raise it to 125. And nobody really started using the 125 until, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5820.0,5880.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"uh, the,\nuh, 1980s.  Um, so just simply taste a whiskey that was made in the nineteen\nfif--bottled in the 1950s and taste one that's during today, and you can tell\nthe difference right there.  And there is a big difference in flavor.\n\nTROLAND:  With the development of connoisseurship of bourbons as you described\nearlier do you think that distillers will experiment with lower distillation\nproofs, lower barrel proofs and try to recreate?\n\nVEACH:  Yes.  Matter of fact I know a couple of them that are doing it today.  I\ncan't say.  Not unless you want to block this out for fifty years or something.\n\nTROLAND:  Well, I understand that there will be release from Buffalo Trace\ncoming up sometime soon, uh, of an E. H. Taylor bourbon.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND: What do you hope to see ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5880.0,5940.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in that?\n\nVEACH:  I--I'm looking forward to it.  I'm, I'm hoping Mark Brown will invite me\nto the, uh, first tasting of that barrel. Uh, because, you know, that recipe\ncomes from things that I learned from the Taylor-Hay Family Papers.  And, uh,\nwith the, uh, uh, uh, the recipe that he put together there and, uh, once again\nhe did do a very low distillation proof and a low, uh, barrel proof on that\nproduct.  It's been in the warehouse now for about a year.  A little over a\nyear. Uh, I'm looking forward to when they finally decide to taste it. Uh, I\nthink they're going to be shocked at how different it really is.  And, you know,\nJulian Van Winkle, I know that he's been trying to convince Mark Brown for, for\nyears since he signed the agreement with him to put his products in the barrel\nat a lower proof in order to, uh, uh, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=5940.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"give it more flavor. And I'm hoping that\nthis will convince Mark Brown that this is worth doing.\n\nUm, I think the real innovations are going to be coming from the craft\ndistillers though.  You get the, the guys that are distilling on a small basis\nnow, and there's a lot of them out there now.  Um, you get some of them to\ndecide that they want to try to do it just like they did in the nineteenth\ncentury, and they start making a product that is very different, uh, uh, than\nmodern products in many ways but start attracting attention because it has so\nmuch more flavor than some of the modern products.  That's going to be what\nchanges the industry, which is going to make the industry sit back and say,\n\"Ooh.\", uh, similar to what happened in the beer industry.  Craft beer breweries\nappeared. They started making very flavorful beers. And then ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6000.0,6060.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all of a sudden\nthe big companies said, \"Oh, we need to do this as well.\"  And I think that's\nwhat's going to happen with the, uh, distilling industry.  I think you're going\nto get some craft distillers, uh, that are going to be making these type\nproducts, and it's going to change the industry.\n\nUnfortunately compared to the beer industry it's going to take a lot longer\nbecause we're talking an aged product.  You know, beer you can make and sell\nwithin a month.  You know, distilling, uh, whiskey you're looking at four years,\nyou know, usually.\n\nTROLAND:  Of course you can count among craft distillers--(coughs)--excuse me.\nYou can count among craft distillers Buffalo Trace with their recently installed\nmicro still.\n\nVEACH: Right.\n\nTROLAND:  Joanna, do you have any other questions that might be of interest?\n\nHAY:  I was just wondering if on any of your visits or any of the events at\nBuffalo Trace whether you'd ever met Jimmy ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6060.0,6120.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Johnson and talked with Jimmy Johnson?\n\nVEACH:  Oh yes. Yeah.\n\nHAY:  And, and I, I suppose you heard that he did pass away in --\n\nVEACH: Yes.\n\nHAY:  In the last couple weeks.\n\nVEACH:  Right.  Yeah.  Jimmy Johnson was actually, uh, the last event I was at,\nuh, Buffalo Trace at, uh, uh, mi--I guess it was your, uh, event for the oral\nhistory project.  Because I had that bottle of, uh, uh, Echo Springs and I let\nhim have a little taste of it.  And yes I did hear that he passed away the other\nday.  And, uh, you know and I'd heard that Ron Eddins had passed away too.\nBecause he, he just went in the hall of fame what, a year ago? Yeah.\n\nHAY:  Within the last year.  Within the last, uh, six months.  I think the month --\n\nVEACH:  That's right.  He--he was--\n\nHAY:  I think the month before he died.\n\nVEACH:  Yeah he was in the 2010 class, wasn't he?  So yeah.  Which shows you how\nimportant these, uh, oral history projects are. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6120.0,6180.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wish you'd have gotten Booker\nNoe before he died.\n\nHAY:  Let me keep going on.  Let's see.  I think--I don't think I have anything\nelse.  I think you've covered everything that I had in mind.\n\nTROLAND:  Let me ask you this obvious question.  What's your favorite bourbon?\n\nVEACH:  What are you buying me?  My favorite bourbon is free bourbon.\n\nTROLAND:  My favorite is of course OP, other people's.\n\nVEACH:  No.  Bourbon has such a wide variety of flavor profiles.  It really\ndepends upon what I'm doing.  So I don't have a favorite bourbon.  I've got a\nlot of them that I, uh, uh, tend to gravitate towards.  But once again it really\ndepends upon what I'm doing.  I mean I really like the Ancient, Ancient Age\neighty-six proof.  I like Elmer T. Lee for the single barrels. Uh, I like Old\nForester Signature. Um I like, uh, actually for ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6180.0,6240.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an eighty proof bourbon, my\nfavorite eighty proof bourbon is, uh, the, uh, uh, Four Roses Yellow Label.\nThat's the one I tend to buy if I'm going to buy an eighty proof bourbon.  Um,\neven though I'll tell you they're going to get a run for their money with the,\nuh, uh, Early Times bourbon that just came back out to the United States. Uh,\nVery Old Barton one hundred proof bottled in bond.  My favorite bourbon to cook\nwith.  Um, it's also very good drinking bourbon. Uh, you know, Wild Turkey.  I\ndon't think anything that Jimmy Russell makes is bad.  You know, I can drink\nanything that he makes. Uh, uh, you know, Jim Beam products.  I like the Jim\nBeam Black Label. Uh, I like the Old Grand-Dad bottled in bond.  I tend to like\nthe, uh, a bourbon somewhere between ninety and 107 proof.  I'm not terribly\nfond of anything under ninety proof. Uh, and once you get over ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6240.0,6300.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"107 or even 110,\nI might go high as 110.  But once you get over that, uh, you know that first\ntaste is just going to kill your taste buds anyway.  So you have to add some\nwater to it in my opinion, you know, to make it drinkable or it doesn't kill\nyour taste buds with the first drink.\n\nSo yeah there, there's a lot of good bourbons out there.  All the companies make\ngreat bourbons. Uh, uh, I--I tell you the bourbon that I wish would come back to\nthe United States is I.W. Harper.  You know it's been sold, uh, only in Japan\nand the Far East for you know--well when I was at United Distillers it was that\nway.  So it's probably been thirty years since they've had it here in the United\nStates.  I would love to see them bring it back.  Because it's a great bourbon.\n\nTROLAND:  Anything else that I haven't asked you that you'd like to say?\n\nHAY:  I have one more before you ask that question.\n\nTROLAND:  Okay, fine.\n\nHAY: Could you summarize the effect that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6300.0,6360.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Bottled-in-Bond Act had? You've\ntalked about it a little before.  But just summarize what things were like\nbefore and then what it--what t--what its effect was after.\n\nVEACH:  Okay.  Bottled-in-Bond Act is an interesting question.  I probably\nshould have talked more about this when I was talking about the Pure Food and\nDrug Act, because in many ways the Bottled-in-Bond Act is the first act of the\nPure Food and Drug Act.  And what was happening is in the end of the nineteenth\ncentury you had straight whiskey distillers and you had the rectifiers.  And we\ntalked a little bit about that in the past here.  But then you have two\ndifferent markets growing out.  And there was becoming a quite a bit of\ncompetition and quite a bit of ill-will between the two.  Straight whiskey\ndistillers were getting really upset because you were getting a lot of people\nthat were just coming down, setting up shop on this side of the Ohio River in\nCovington and Louisville and Paducah and Owensboro ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6360.0,6420.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they were buying neutral\nspirits and they were buying a little bit of straight whiskey and maybe not even\nnone at all.  But they were making a product and bottling it and calling it\nKentucky bourbon.\n\nAnd, uh, this is one of the reasons there was so much overproduction at the\ntime.  You know so there were actually rectifiers that would advertise, they\nwould make nine-year-old whiskey while you wait.  And the straight whiskey\npeople didn't like this.  So what happened is a bunch of them got together and\nthey went to John Carlisle who was Secretary of Treasury at the time under\nGrover Cleveland.  And they put together a, a law called the Bottled-in-Bond\nAct.  Now this wouldn't have been ha--uh, possible, uh, twenty years earlier\nbecause you had an evolution in bottle making. When, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6420.0,6480.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"uh, George Garvin Brown\nfirst started bottling bourbon in eightee--bottling his bourbon in, uh, 1872, he\nwasn't the first to bottle bourbon.  You had grocery stores going back to 1849 I\nthink's the earliest recorded bottle of bourbon with a label that says bourbon\non it, that were buying a barrel and bottled it up to sell to their customers.\nBut George Garvin Brown decided to create a bourbon that would be sold only by\nthe bottle, which is much more significant than being the first one to bottle\nbourbon.  To sell it only by the bottle.  In order to guarantee quality.\n\nThis was a very expensive proposition in 1872, because the bottles had to be\nhand-blown.  In the 1880s you start getting machine-made bottles.  In the 1890s\nthey improve this, uh, by making a three-piece mold and, uh, made the bottles\neven cheaper. So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6480.0,6540.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by 1897 Bottled-in-Bond Act is a very real possibility because\nit's something that could be done on a economical scale.\n\nSo they got a law passed that said that the whiskey that was in this bottle all\ncame from the same distillery, was all made in the same season, which there are\ntwo seasons in the year for distilling, spring and fall.  Spring is from January\nto June, fall is July to December.  So same distillery, same season, at least\nfour years old, and bottled at one hundred proof.  All under government supervision.\n\nDoesn't guarantee that it's good whiskey but it does guarantee one thing: it's\nstraight whiskey.  They couldn't add anything to it.  No--anything--only thing\nthey could do is add water to adjust proof. So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6540.0,6600.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by passing this law it's setting\nthe straight whiskey, uh, aside from the rest of it.  So when you had bonded\nbourbon you knew you were getting real straight bourbon.\n\nThe rectifiers didn't like this and everything.  And, uh, the Pure Food and Drug\nAct came along and you--which made them even more upset.  And it's really\ninteresting.  I was looking at an ad the other day, um, in a Bonfort's magazine\nI think it was.  And it showed, uh, Sunny Brook bourbon and it was the Pure Food\nbourbon.  They're not talking about it being food food.  They're talking about\nit met Pure Food and Drug Act requirements.  And that's what happens, you know,\nthrough the early part of, uh, the twentieth century with bottled in bond\nwhiskey. You start getting bottled whiskey. You get--you know and the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6600.0,6660.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bonded.\nYou get more--more and more sales in the bottle, less out of the barrel.  And,\nuh, uh, that's all pretty much responsibility of the Bottled-in-Bond Act.  So I\nhope that answered your question.\n\nHAY:  It did.  And I suppose the other thing, uh, my last question is why did it\nhappen in Kentucky?\n\nVEACH:  Like I said, geography.  You've got iron-free water. Uh, you got hot\nsummers.  Fairly cold winters. Uh, you have lots of rivers and creeks and things\nfor transportation. Uh, you have, uh, just, you know, even as simple as having a\nhill. Uh, one of my favorite pictures is a picture of the Harlan Distillery down\nin Monroe County, Kentucky in, uh, 1918.  And, uh, there's a series of pictures\nat the UD ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6660.0,6720.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"archives. And one of the pictures, it shows, uh, the water going into\ntheir distillery, which looks like an old wood barn basically.  And this water\nis being transported off a hillside in a trough.  Gravity-fed.  You know.  So\nhills have their advantages.  You can gravity-feed each stage.  You know, so\nthere are th--uh, I think it's just mainly geography is, uh, the main reason\ntha--for Kentucky making good whiskey.  The reason it survived in Kentucky once\nagain, it has to do kind of with geography.  But it's, uh, Kentucky has a large\nCatholic population.  And, uh, you know, the places where distilleries survive\ntoday you still see a large Catholic population.  You know, Kentucky is also one\nof the driest states in the c--in the union right now too.  So, uh, you know\nthat says something about the Catholic population and its survival.\n\nTROLAND: Why ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6720.0,6780.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"has, has American whiskey now been so uniquely identified with\nbourbon?  After all, historically rye whiskey was a very popular product.  It\nstill of course exists today.  But the American whiskey market is highly\nconcentrated on this one style: bourbon. Why?\n\nVEACH:  Rye whiskey in my opinion dies because Maryland and Pennsylvania\nregulated it out of business.  Kentucky didn't regulate their bourbon industry\nout of business.  At least not yet.  They're working on it.  But, uh, I think\nthat if, uh, Pennsylvania had had the support that the, uh, Kentucky bourbon\nindustry had, rye whiskey would still be a very viable product. Uh, bourbon is\neasier to make though than rye.  Rye, pure rye whiskey, uh, has a lot of\nproblems in its fermentations.  It makes it much more difficult and expensive to\nmake. Bourbon doesn't. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6780.0,6840.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, you get all these factors and throw it\ntogether, uh, it's survival of the fittest.\n\nTROLAND:  So the fact that the American whiskey industry now as a whole is\nhighly concentrated in Kentucky is partly a result of the geography of the\nplace, but also partly the result of political developments in other places.\n\nVEACH:  That's true.  Was it Mark Twain that said he wanted to be in Kentucky\nwhen the world ended because we wouldn't know about it for twenty years?  Well,\nthere you go. Uh, you know, the political developments that happened in the\nother places just didn't happen in Kentucky and a lot of places probably would\nhave considered Kentucky backward at that period for doing it.  But, uh, in my\nopinion they were the, they were the forward-thinking people.  Because I think\nin, uh, I think Pennsylvania and Maryland and some of these other distilling\nstates are beginning to regret, um, their ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6840.0,6900.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"overregulations and such. You see a\nlot of the states that were control states that are beginning to rethink the\nwhole concept of the control state alcohol sales. Uh, which Pennsylvania is one\nof them.  Um, you see states like Tennessee.\n\nTennessee is doing things to make it easier for craft distillers to get into\nbusiness. And, and it's good.  It just makes good sense.  You got to realize how\nmuch taxes the distilling industry is bringing to Kentucky both on the federal\nand the state level.  I mean if you can get more distilleries into Kentucky\nyou'll get more tax money.  Without raising a penny.  You know raising the tax a\npenny.  If you have more people doing it you're going to get more.\n\nTROLAND:  When you refer to over-government-regulation in, for example\nPennsylvania and Maryland, are you referring to too much regulation of the\ndistilling process itself or too much regulation of the sales process at the\nretail level?\n\nVEACH: Both.\n\nTROLAND: A ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6900.0,6960.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cautionary tale.\n\nVEACH:  Yes.  And, you know, Kentucky recently tried to get the, uh, the laws\non--some of the laws on Kentucky's books changed.  And the, uh, uh, the\npoliticians failed to do it.  And it still boggles my mind that they didn't get\nrid of some of these laws that were just ridiculously tough on the industry.\nUm, you know, for example Jimmy Russell cannot legally go into a liquor store\nand sign a bottle for a customer, because he's not allowed to go into a liquor\nstore and promote his own product.  That's not fair. Uh, a distillery can't give\naway glassware with their brands on it.\n\nNow it's been happening for the last thirty, forty years.  The\ngovernment--Kentucky laws have, uh, looked the other way.  And it should be more\nthan just looking the other way.  They should just get rid of some of these old\nlaws that just don't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=6960.0,7020.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"make any sense.\n\nHAY:  We've got three minutes left on the tape.  So some--\n\nTROLAND:  Okay.  Any other, uh, comments or thoughts that come to mind that\nhaven't come up before today?\n\nVEACH:  I don't know, we've covered so much ground today.  But, um, yeah.\nOther, other than that, should probably say something about--more about the\ncraft distillers I think.  Because I really do think that they're going to have\na huge impact on the industry in the twenty-first century.  Um, there have been\nmore licenses to, uh, operate small-scale distilleries, uh, issued in the last\ncouple years than there had been in the last thirty years before that. Uh, these\nguys and ladies--I actually know a couple of, uh, lady distillers that are doing\nthis, um, are going to have an impact. Um, they're ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=7020.0,7080.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"going to change the whole\nconcept of, uh, uh, of how whiskey should taste I think.  And I think a lot of\nit is going to be because a lot of them are trying to get back to that\nold-fashioned way of doing it.  And there's a lot to say for that.\n\nYou know, uh, I was once on a, uh, uh--we used to do a bourbon, uh, seminar down\nat the Bourbon Festival at the Oscar Getz Museum.  And Ova Haney that used to be\nthe master distiller at, uh, Four Roses, uh, who passed away about what, eight,\nten years ago now I guess.  But someone asked the panel, \"Who are going to be\nthe master distillers of the future?\"  And they went to someone else.  I don't\nremember who it was.  But Ova was the second one.  And he just looked right at\nher and he said, \"It's going to be the fucking accountants.\"  His words, not\nmine.  And in many ways he's right.  Because, you know, it's going to be the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=7080.0,7140.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people, you know, it's--when you have a business that is a long term thought\nprocess because you, you basically have to know four years in advance what\nyou're going to sell to sell a four-year product.  You know, and someone like\nJulian Van Winkle, you have to know ten years in advance what you're--how much\nyou're going to sell of your ten-year product and, and I hate to even think\nabout his twenty-three-year-old.  You have to be thinking about long term.  Most\nof the companies are owned, uh, uh, on the stock market now.  And the whole\nthing about stock market is short term.  And, uh, that's one of the things\nthat's, uh, been hurting the industry with the accountants saying, \"We've got to\nincrease profits in order to please the shareholders.\"  And, you know, the\naccountants are controlling things.  And they're dumbing down the product.  And\nthey're, and they're making it, uh, less and less unique.  And I think that's\none of the things that they've lost quite a bit of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=7140.0,7200.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/transcript/12/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is their uniqueness. Um, not\nto say that they're still not unique from each other today, because they are.\nBut they're not as unique as they were thirty years ago or forty years ago.  And\nI think craft distillers are going to bring back some of that unique qualities\nand such.\n\nTROLAND:  Well, Mike, thank you very much.  This has been a very informative afternoon.\n\nVEACH: Uh, well I'm glad you enjoyed it.\n\nHAY:  Thank you so much.\n\n \n\n \n\n[End of interview.]\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=7200.0,7260.0"}]},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["2011oh018_bik018_veach_ohm.xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Becoming a bourbon historian","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mike Veach is introduced. He talks about his time as a graduate student at the University of Louisville which led to a position at the United Distillers archive. He talks about his participation in product tastings as an employee. He talks about the current state of the archive.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My name is Tom Troland and we are interviewing today Mike Veach, who is Associate Curator of Special Collections here at the Filson Historical Society in Louisville, Kentucky. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Distilleries--Kentucky","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Whiskey industry--Kentucky","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Accessible","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Archives","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Associate Curator of Special Collections","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon historians","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Diageo","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Filson Historical Society","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Graduate school","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"J.W. Dant bourbon whiskey","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jefferson County (Ky.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Masters degree","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ownership","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Samples","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Stitzel-Weller Distillery","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Taste testing panels","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"United Distillers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"University of Louisville","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=2.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mission of the Filson Historical Society","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=410.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veach talks about the main purpose of the Filson Historical Society and his responsibilities as the Associate Curator of Special Collections. He talks about how his work at the Filson Historical Society is connected to his interest in the history of bourbon. He talks about the bourbon events and fundraisers he has participated in.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=410.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Can you tell me just briefly a bit about the history and mission of the Filson Historical Society?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=410.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Filson Historical Society","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Whiskey industry--Kentucky--History.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=410.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Access","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Archives","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon events","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon history","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cataloger","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charity","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Civil War","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Collections","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Duties","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Filson Bourbon Academy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fundraising","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"History","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"History of bourbon","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kentucky","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Library","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ohio River Valley","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Preservation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Researchers","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tasting","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Training","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Urban Bourbon Trail","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Websites","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Writing books","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=410.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Documents at the Filson Historical Society about bourbon","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=769.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Veach discusses some of the documents that have been preserved by the Filson Historical Society which explain the history of the bourbon industry. He talks about how various wars, laws, and technological advancements have affected the industry, which is demonstrated through the historical documents.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=769.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Does the Filson have in its collections any important documents related to the history of bourbon?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=769.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alcohol--Law and legislation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alcohol--Taxation--United States.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Distillation.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Distilleries--Kentucky","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Distillers.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Filson Historical Society","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Influenza Epidemic, 1918-1919","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"United States--History--War of 1812","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Whiskey industry--Kentucky--History.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women in the whiskey industry","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"World War, 1914-1918","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}}],"target":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12#t=769.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://nunncenter.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1/collection_resources/12/file/12/index/12/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alcohol taxes","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Blended whiskey","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bottled-in-Bond Act of 1897","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon County (Ky.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bourbon recipes","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charring barrels","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Civil War","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Collections","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Colonel E.H. 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